Your favorite mid to high gain amps that retain clarity on complex chords

kevinerror said:
That's gotta be it. Maybe what I'm playing just has no place through a higher gain amp.
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That's pretty much it, though some amps are better behaved in that regard than others. I've had better luck with the Dumble-style models than with most. I played Misty through the Bludojai Lead at mid-gain settings and was surprised at how many of the more complex voicings could be heard. But it was still no substitute for a clean tone.
 
For a bit o' fun, there's an E power chord you can play at the 7th fret that uses all six strings. It sounds great at just about any gain.
 
FractalAudio said:
The higher the gain, the simpler the chords need to be. You can do more complex chords but you need to avoid clustering. Eric Johnson is a master at this. You'll notice his voicings never cluster.
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EJ is a master of a frustratingly large number of things.

The really interesting thing is how first position open chords sound awesome with tons of gain but even a bit higher with all six strings and it starts to get ugly real fast.
 
ccroyalsenders said:
The really interesting thing is how first position open chords sound awesome with tons of gain but even a bit higher with all six strings and it starts to get ugly real fast.
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Dunno. Open G and C sound a bit harsh to my ears. Open chords like E and A, with only one third and all the other strings roots and fifths, fare better. Those forms survive pretty well up the neck, too.
 
kevinerror said:
This is a great point and something I hadn't considered. It definitely gets worse the more notes I play.
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That totally makes sense. But it also depends on what notes you play. The more complex the chord the harder it is to get a good drive sound. The more additions/suspensions to a chord the cluttered it's going to be. But some amps and drives handle this better than others. I use a lot of complex Rush cluster type of chords or dissonant King Crimson chords too with drive. But the drive has to be mild. One thing you can also try is mix a clean amp with a drive amp. Or use a clean amp with the TS808 before it. Adding a little chorus can open it up also. I bought a (hardware) Brunneti Mercury Box drive pedal several years ago for this reason. I needed a very transparent overdrive since I hardly use any 'normal' chords. For me this was the most transparent drive I have tried. But even on that pedal I turn the drive way down.
 
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Rex said:
Dunno. Open G and C sound a bit harsh to my ears. Open chords like E and A, with only one third and all the other strings roots and fifths, fare better. Those forms survive pretty well up the neck, too.
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Man I love a big, fat G chord or C9.
 
kevinerror said:
Just wondering what everyone's favorite amps are for this purpose. I tend to play a lot of stuff that's not the solid 'power chord' - lots of minor 7 type chords, lots of major 2nds.. just not a lot of the typical root + 5th. Typically these are a little higher on the fretboard/strings, so on higher gain amps (A 5150, for example, gain not cranked but up there for sure) tend to not sound great on these chords. A lot of times my desire for 'attack' or 'twang' causes me to push up the treble/presence, or the bright/definition - just less 'low end' going into the amps in general, I guess.. but then the clarity of those complex chords goes away. Without those boosts in the high end, it tends to sound muddy and I don't get the attack I want.

So - what are your favorite amps that handle this well without turning into a muddy mess? Or maybe it's not an amp - maybe an EQ or a drive or something else? What do you all like for this? Maybe this should just sound great on most amps already, and my pickups suck? What do you all think?

Cheers :)
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One of the best ever threads, normally only see how people can get Axe to emulate a chainsaw, but I play stuff with 7 or even 9 chords, just playing 5ths hardly tests harmonic feedback or overtone notes, yeah tahts exactly my mission in next couple of days is too create, this beast is awesome and sometimes think there is too much choice! Superb stuff, good luck in the search mate, I think the Plexi's are pretty good for this too
 
Bodde said:
That totally makes sense. But it also depends on what notes you play. The more complex the chord the harder it is to get a good drive sound. The more additions/suspensions to a chord the cluttered it's going to be. But some amps and drives handle this better than others. I use a lot of complex Rush cluster type of chords or dissonant King Crimson chords too with drive. But the drive has to be mild. One thing you can also try is mix a clean amp with a drive amp. Or use a clean amp with the TS808 before it. Adding a little chorus can open it up also. I bought a (hardware) Brunneti Mercury Box drive pedal several years ago for this reason. I needed a very transparent overdrive since I hardly use any 'normal' chords. For me this was the most transparent drive I have tried. But even on that pedal I turn the drive way down.
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This is because of overtones. The complexity in most chords comes less from the fundamentals and more from the overtones. That is, if you're playing a chord with all roots, 3rds, and 5ths, the overtones are all resonating on sympathetic frequencies. The more complex the chord itself, the significantly more complex its overtones. And the more gain you have, the more distortion (figuratively too, but I mean this literally) there is in all tones involved, so the more complex chords become exponentially more difficult to retain clarity and separation. Some amps/drive pedals, etc, have gain staging such that they retain more clarity than others but what Cliff said about clustering is absolutely right. The more you stick tones with un-sympathetic overtones together, the more muddy it's going to be.
 
vondano said:
the recto 2 org modern!

high gain jazz chords seems pretty clear here!



patches are here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...esome-pt-2-full-song-preset-included-yay.html
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Nice! I use a lot of jazz chords too. As the gain goes up I will drop notes from the chord, keeping things like 7ths and stacking the thirds up top, etc. (of course, easy chord is different and it depends what others are playing, etc.). :D

Can you share some chords and voicings so that we can better see how you may (or may not) be avoiding the clustering issues raised by Cliff? :encouragement:
 
I think that the blue faced Diezel VH4's were perfect for this. It's high-gain, but not really a "metal" amp, and has a ridiculously open, clear sound.

I actually really like the Splawn Nitro model, too. It's sort of the underdog of the Axe-FX line-up because it's so weird to dial in. You practically need to turn the bass and gain knobs to 0, and need to crank the rest of it to 7-8. It's also finnicky with cabs. But once you get it dialed in, it's an unbelievable amp.
 
CenturyStanding681 said:
I think that the blue faced Diezel VH4's were perfect for this. It's high-gain, but not really a "metal" amp, and has a ridiculously open, clear sound.

I actually really like the Splawn Nitro model, too. It's sort of the underdog of the Axe-FX line-up because it's so weird to dial in. You practically need to turn the bass and gain knobs to 0, and need to crank the rest of it to 7-8. It's also finnicky with cabs. But once you get it dialed in, it's an unbelievable amp.
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Thanks for the tip. I'm looking for amps and cabs to create a patch for a fusion version of All Blues by Miles Davis.

Think of the incredible covers done by folks like Steve Lukather and Michael Landau.
 
It's going to vary depending on your guitar/pickups/cab block, but for maximum clarity in hi-gain I seem to come back to three models in various combinations: Recto1 Orange Modern, Friedman HBE, and Herbie Ch2+
 
smcrosby said:
Thanks for the tip. I'm looking for amps and cabs to create a patch for a fusion version of All Blues by Miles Davis.

Think of the incredible covers done by folks like Steve Lukather and Michael Landau.
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For my fusion lead patches I've narrowed it down to the Fox Deep and the Ruby Rocket. The Ruby was a revelation to me. Plenty of gain for a sweet, singing saturation while retaining clarity. I think I'm using either the new Bludo IR or the Triptik 1x12.
 
Great example of jazz in metal setup has to be Nuno Bettencourt, tune called Cupid's Dead where he uses 9ths but he's songs always seem to include proper chords as opposed to power chords, not too sure about his setup, think its Marshall 800 though, Alex Lifeson fro Rush does some crazy chords with fingers all over the shop.
 
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