Yorkville E10 passive FRFR. Anybody using these?

J

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
I've got an E10 and an E10P (the powered version) on rent right now.
To my ears, and with the limited techniques and abilities I have to test with, the passive cab sounds *much* better.

The E10P has way too much emphasis on the extreme bottom end as well as the extreme top end.
I'm driving the E10 passive with an ART SLA 1 in bridged mono mode.

In order to check that the SLA1 isn't simply lacking in bottom end or top end I've been A/B'ing the E10 with my home studio monitoring system, but that's just a relatively hi-end (for the 80s) Yamaha integrated amp (A-700) pushing some Yamaha NS-10s.
I know the NS10s don't reproduce the bottom end anyway, so I've been double checking with some AKG K240 headphones and some old Stax Ear-Speakers..

Based on these little tests, which are hardly conclusive, it seems to me that the SLA1 driving the E10 passive is much flatter than the E10P.

The E10 passive is the first FRFR system I've tried with the Axe that actually sounds/feels like it might work for me.
Other FRFRs I've tried are the QSC K12 and K10, Traynor K1 K2 and K4 keyboard amps, and a Yorkville NX55 powered monitor.

Anybody else out there tried the E10 passives?
Did you have a similar experience to mine?
 
I have a E10P and find myself doing extreme things to tame the high end. In curious why driving the same speaker with a different power amp would produce such a marked difference. The SLA should be linear, as should the E10Ps amp, so it should come out the other end the same, right? You're not using the power amps past their clipping points.
 
iaresee said:
I have a E10P and find myself doing extreme things to tame the high end. In curious why driving the same speaker with a different power amp would produce such a marked difference. The SLA should be linear, as should the E10Ps amp, so it should come out the other end the same, right? You're not using the power amps past their clipping points.
Click to expand...

Hmm.
The reason I'm posting here about the E10 is because it's the first FRFR speaker I've had any experience with where I don't have to do "extreme things to tame the high end".
Not sure why we'd have different experiences in that regard.

I'm also curious about why the E10P sounds so different. I wasn't really expecting as marked as difference as what I'm hearing when I rented them.
Based on the published specs, the E10P has a different crossover frequency (2.9k on the E10 and 1.5k on the E10P), so maybe the drivers themselves are actually different?
The E10P uses a Class D power amp for the woofer but they don't say what they're using for the horn.
If it's also Class D for the horn it may confirm another little theory of mine that current Class D designs are not so hot for top end yet.
The QSC K series speakers are also Class D and I didn't like the top end that they had.
The SLA1 is Class B, I believe.

The E10P sounds more similar to the other FRFR powered speakers I've tried.
The E10 sounds more like my home recording environment.

I need an FRFR speaker that translates well to FOH systems I may be plugging my Axe into.
Not really sure which way to go here.
 
Lots of variables there for sure.

I don't use my E10P much because...well...I don't like the way it sounds. It sounded much better than the NX55P I tried, but still it's not a very nice sounding speaker when I plug in to it. The louder it gets the harder it gets for me to listen to. I need to spend more time with it I think.

I roll the treble on it way back. You? Where do you set the LF rolloff control? Live or playback mode?
 
I don't like the E10P either.
It's the E10, the passive one, that I like.
It has no controls, just speaker inputs.
 
This is an interesting option I didn't realize was available. I'll have to rent one and see how it sounds.

Of all the powered monitors I tried, the E10P was my favourite. I've tried the NX55, QSC K10, a K4 and I currently have an AI Coda. None of them however, were a match to my Dynaudios, even with some output EQ. I had resigned myself to waiting until I can afford a $2K+ solution.

I notice that the crossover frequency for the E12 is 1900Hz while the E10P is 1500Hz. I suspect the E10 spec (2900Hz) is a typo. Maybe they went to put in 1900 (by mistake, rather than 1500) and also made a typo. "2900" was the result. Just a theory.

Terry.
 
Long ago, and far away, I rented an E10P and spent some time comparing it directly with a high-quality pair of large-ish hifi speakers whose pedigree and design I know very well, having owned and used them in different environments for a few years now. Note that I'm not promoting the average home hifi speaker as being a paragon of linearity, it's just that these particular speakers have stood the test of time, they are reasonably linear, and also transparent while being musical, two things that don't often go together. (They also sound stunning using the Axe thru them, which I only did for a quick confirmation of how good the Axe could potentially sound.)

I commented at the time that the E10P sounded reasonably similar to my reference; what I really meant that there was no area of the overall response that really called attention to itself compared to the reference speakers. Point in favor of the E10P's.

What I didn't mention at the time, thinking it irrelevant given the reasonable cost of the E10P's against what they were being compared to, was that the E10P's were nowhere nearly as transparent as the reference monitors. (Yeah, a bit harder in the top when pushed, etc., but again, not comparing apples to oranges in terms of cost.)

Here's my point: it wouldn't surprise me if the lack of transparency, some hardness, etc. were associated with the electronics in the active version. This has been my experience with most of the Class D (and perhaps other classes) of circuit-board amps incorporated into monitors. Not suggesting that the components of the passive monitor are reference-quality, but they may not be the primary cause of loss of transparency. And you have to bear the reasonable cost in mind.

The E10P's are certainly not alone in this respect.

FYI, I don't use the Axe for such (subjective) comparisons, only repeatable program that I know well and have auditioned on numerous high end installations.

Anyway, just chatting.
 
Disclaimer:
Anybody reading my comments in this thread should take everything I say with a grain of salt.
Yesterday and today my ears have been telling me the exact opposite of what I originally posted.
I.e. The E10P sounds much more "neutral", according to my admittedly non-neutral references, than the E10.

Assuming that the E10 and the E10P use the same drivers and crossover frequency, it may be that the SLA1 just doesn't fully reproduce the bottom end or the top end.

I haven't made the switch to FRFR yet although I'm working towards it.
I'd just hate to invest in an FRFR system and find that it sounds significantly different from the PAs I'll be sending a direct signal too.
I'd like to just show up at a gig, give the sound-man an XLR out and have him be able to do some minor EQ'ing to get me to sound on his system like I sound on stage.
I don't want to have to futz with using one of the Global EQs to compensate for differences between my system and the FOH system.

Today, I'm liking the E10P quite a bit more than other FRFRs I've tried.
God knows what I'll like tomorrow though! :?
 
Says a lot about how much of what we hear can't be trusted as impartial, complete information. We're very good at focusing on sounds we want to hear.

Are you running the E10P with flat EQ? Where is the Live/Playback switch set? Where is the low frequency roll off set? I ask: because I want to try 'em here!
 
iaresee said:
Says a lot about how much of what we hear can't be trusted as impartial, complete information. We're very good at focusing on sounds we want to hear.
Click to expand...
Very true. Especially after or during a long tweaking session.
Fletcher-Munson effects take over.
I find that after working on my dark clean jazz tone that when I go back to a patch with more hi-end content there seems to be much more of it (hi-end that is) than I thought there was when I was programming it. And visa versa.
My ears seem to fatigue with the hi-end stuff and if I'm not careful I just keep boosting it.


iaresee said:
Are you running the E10P with flat EQ? Where is the Live/Playback switch set? Where is the low frequency roll off set? I ask: because I want to try 'em here!
Click to expand...

Live/PB switch is set to PB.
Bass roll-off is set to 65hz.
Mic/Line is set to Line.
I.e. All push-button switches are in the out position.
Those are the only settings that make sense with a device like the Axe.
The Live setting is EQ enhanced for vocal presence.
The 100hz roll-off is used when a sub-bass cabinet is also in the system.
I keep the EQ knobs in their centre flat positions, but I appreciate the fact that bass and treble can be tweaked a bit if and when necessary.
 
joegold said:
Disclaimer:
Anybody reading my comments in this thread should take everything I say with a grain of salt.
Yesterday and today my ears have been telling me the exact opposite of what I originally posted.
I.e. The E10P sounds much more "neutral", according to my admittedly non-neutral references, than the E10.

Assuming that the E10 and the E10P use the same drivers and crossover frequency, it may be that the SLA1 just doesn't fully reproduce the bottom end or the top end.
Click to expand...
I rented an E10 (passive). I set it beside my BM5A and did a quick test. The result? The E10 had no low end, it sounded boxy and the top end was harsh (relative to the Dynaudio BM5A). In fairness, this is a quick assessment, and I need more time with the speaker.

What I found very interesting is that E10 sounded like I had turned the bass control way down. In contrast, the BV5A sounded very full and rich. joegold, I suggest the lack of bass you note in not an SLA1 issue, but rather an E10 issue.

I suspect that indeed, the E10P sounds better than the E10. I don't remember the E10P (powered) that I rented a few months ago, sounding as bad as the E10 I now have. The added electronics are likely designed to compensate for speaker issues.

joegold said:
Disclaimer:
Today, I'm liking the E10P quite a bit more than other FRFRs I've tried.
God knows what I'll like tomorrow though! :?
Click to expand...
So, what's your favourite today? ;)

Terry.
 
Unfortunately, it seems that $2K and up is required to do the job. Anything less results in frustration (so far).

Terry.
 
Terry, I concur. I'm happiest listening to my AxeFx through my drummers quad of TurboSound mains. You don't even want to know what those cost.
 
I know it's an old thread, but I bought 2 e10p's last year, tried the QSC, Yamaha, EV and a few others, and have loved mine, plus the size and warranty on them beats them all. I still get other guitar players chuckling when they see me set up 2 of these little monitors on stage...until they hear them. They're also more than loud enough for live use/with a loud drummer....
 
dukemcrae said:
I know it's an old thread, but I bought 2 e10p's last year, tried the QSC, Yamaha, EV and a few others, and have loved mine, plus the size and warranty on them beats them all. I still get other guitar players chuckling when they see me set up 2 of these little monitors on stage...until they hear them. They're also more than loud enough for live use/with a loud drummer....
Click to expand...

I am on the hunt and have been renting from L&M as well. I tried these E10's (passive) with my EPQ2000 Power Amp at the rental managers recommendation and.... these may be ok for folk or country or clean jazz or the like but in a hard rock/metal band these just couldn't keep up. I returned em, and then tried the powered ones, as the rental guy insisted that my Behringer PA is crap.... totally untrue as I power 2 PV215's for our FOH with it and it has performed flawlessly and is non coloring and flat and huge headroom with no distortion. anyways I said ok, i'm willing to try....... long story short, they sounded the same. cleans were great, lacking the low end though just as the non powered.

I was disappointed and revisiting the internet, doing more research, and the limited rental options (L&M only rents Yorkville), This week I went with the Yorkville nx55p powered 12" and am actually very impressed with the results. The tone is the same that I get out of my headphones and side by side with my 100 watt JVM Marshall head and 1960 AV+BV full stack it holds it's own. It definately projects the low end well enough to compete with a 1960 4x12 B cab. I spent a little time and had to make a few level adjustments, but tone wise, didn't need to change anything. I'll be testing it with the band rehearsal this weekend, but I am confident I am on the right track. Considering I could grab 2 of these used for about a $1000, these are looking pretty attractive ATM.

System Type 2-Way
Active or Passive Active
Program Power (Watts) 550 Watts (1200 Watts Peak)
Biampable Self Powered
Biamp Operation Only Yes
Max SPL (dB) 131dB Peak (125dB Continuous)
Frequency Response (Hz +/- 3dB) 45 - 18k
Crossover Frequency (Hz) 2k
Driver Configuration 12-inch / 1-inch
HF Driver(s) 1.4-inch Aluminum Diaphragm w/ 1-inch exit
HF Dispersion ( DEG H x DEG V) 80 x 50
HF Protection Thermal / Peak Limiter
LF Driver(s) 12-inch w/ 3-inch voicecoil
LF Protection Thermal / Overcurrent
HF Amplifier Type Two Tier Class H
LF Amplifier Type Class D
Power Cable Yes
Power Switch Yes
Power Consumption (typ/max) 60Hz 2.0A / 50Hz 1,0A
Inputs 7
Inputs - 1/4 IN Jacks 2 (line input) 2 (link in/out)
Inputs - XLR 1 (mic) 2 (line in/out)
Input Sensitivity (Vrms Sine) +4dBv / 1.23V
Mixer Controls Mixer on/off switch
Mic Gain
Line/CD Gain
Treble/Bass Tweak
Level Controls +/- 6dB Main Volume
EQ Controls 100Hz HP Filter (LF Rolloff)
Limiter Yes
LED Indicators Power/Clip/Limit
Feet Yes
Flying Hardware 1/4-20 x 5 - 2 (Top), 2 (Bottom), 1 (Pullback)
Optional Flying Hardware NXF Flyware
Bar Handles 1 (Side)
Pole Mount Adapter (1 3/8 IN -3.5cm) Yes
Enclosure Materials Molded Polypropylene
Grille Perforated Metal
Covering / Finish Black
Dimensions (DWH xbackW COM inches) 12.25 x 16 x 26.5 x 9
Dimensions (DWH xbackW COM cm) 31.12 x 40.6 x 67.3 x 22.9
Weight (lbs/kg) 41 / 18.6
Click to expand...
 
thanks for the post, E10P's was one I was interested in. I agree, the NX55P sounded great when I brought my Ultra in to L&M to test it.. But Im not a big fan of the size/price, im sure theres something better..

You could see if they have that new Mackie DLM12 there.. supposively they sound great and L&M stocks Mackie so possibly..
 
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