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York Audio Checkmate M25 Cab Pack is out now!!!

unix-guy

Legend!
I haven't bought this pack, but I have been toying with blending SM57 + M160 IRs of the same speaker from another pack lately.

I've not heard of people using this combo before but I like it.

I find I'm tending to mix the 57 lower (maybe -6 to -8dB). How are you guys blending them?
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
I’ve been toying back and forth between the M25-1 57-160 on its own and then an even mix in the cab block of the M25-1 57C and the M25-1 160E
Just slightly different flavor than your producer mix.

I’m a fan of m160 IRs but most 3rd party seem to be bloated in the low end because of the frequency response of that mic.
However, your captures have a musical fullness without the bloat, so again, great job! It really fills out the 57mics very well.

I will have to check out the SM7C in this cab pack. I haven’t made it that far down the list yet :)


I have however, landed on your SM7D IR from your bi-polar cab pack as one of my favorite V30 IRs. It just captures that grind and texture that a lot of V30 IRs tend to miss out on IMO. That IR is super fun under the fingers.


Thanks man! To be honest, I never liked 160 captures for the same reason. I was pretty anti-160 until a friend encouraged me to grab one and try it... so I did. I dunno if I just got lucky with a great one or what, but I love that the low end is full but not bloated, and there's nice detail on the top end without being brash. That became my go-to ribbon mic along with the KSM313 when you "just want something different than a 121," ya know?

And I saw that you're a fellow Nashvillian. Hit me up sometime and we'll hang.
-Justin
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
I haven't bought this pack, but I have been toying with blending SM57 + M160 IRs of the same speaker from another pack lately.

I've not heard of people using this combo before but I like it.

I find I'm tending to mix the 57 lower (maybe -6 to -8dB). How are you guys blending them?

It's hard to say what the right blend would be for your situation. Like others have said, these Greenbacks don't sound like anyone else's pack, so recipes that work for me might not work with the IR's you're using. My basic rule of thumb is to start with a mic that you love and determine if you want to fill out a little more body or if you want to add a little more cut. The blend could change drastically depending on your amp as well. A thinner/brighter amp like a plexi may need more 160 to give it more body, whereas a thicker/darker amp like a Friedman BE may need more 57 to give it some edge. Taking the 57 down -6 to -8dB is in the normal range, especially if your 57 IR is overly bright or has that velcro-y top end that pokes out if it's too hot in your mix. If it sounds good to your ears, there's no wrong way to do it. It's a cool mic mixture!

For me, I tend to like them both equal or around -3dB on either side depending on what the amp needs.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
It's hard to say what the right blend would be for your situation. Like others have said, these Greenbacks don't sound like anyone else's pack, so recipes that work for me might not work with the IR's you're using. My basic rule of thumb is to start with a mic that you love and determine if you want to fill out a little more body or if you want to add a little more cut. The blend could change drastically depending on your amp as well. A thinner/brighter amp like a plexi may need more 160 to give it more body, whereas a thicker/darker amp like a Friedman BE may need more 57 to give it some edge. Taking the 57 down -6 to -8dB is in the normal range, especially if your 57 IR is overly bright or has that velcro-y top end that pokes out if it's too hot in your mix. If it sounds good to your ears, there's no wrong way to do it. It's a cool mic mixture!

For me, I tend to like them both equal or around -3dB on either side depending on what the amp needs.
Thanks... I have been testing with Mikko's pack and was using the G12H30 55Hz IRs. After updating to FW 3.0b, I think I prefer more of the 57 now... But using the 75Hz IRs from the same pack, I'm preferring more 160... Which kind of makes sense as the 75s seem brighter.
 

shaunb

Experienced
Thanks a lot, and I’m glad you’re digging the pack! Jim is a total IR junkie too, and loves to mess with stuff. I’d have to ask and see what he landed on, but I know he liked the M25-1 57+160 mix and loved mixing the two speakers together. Ken Andrews from Failure told me he’s using the M25-1 57+160 for their new live patches. I like that mix a lot, but also like the M25-1 SM7 1C as well as the 421+313 mix (can’t remember if it’s M25-1 or M25-2).

Which ones have you been liking?


This is pretty cool, I love Ken Andrews and I've always been a bit obsessed with his guitar tones across all his projects.

I might have to check this pack out.

I don't suppose you know what amp models he is using?

Congrats on the pack, must be pretty top notch if Jim and Ken like it.
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
This is pretty cool, I love Ken Andrews and I've always been a bit obsessed with his guitar tones across all his projects.

I might have to check this pack out.

I don't suppose you know what amp models he is using?

Congrats on the pack, must be pretty top notch if Jim and Ken like it.

Same here. I’m a huge Failure fan. Fantastic Planet is easily in my top 5 favorite albums of all time, and I bought a Fractal because I saw Ken post a picture of his and I knew it had to be awesome if he was using one. Clarity is also in my top 5, so to have Ken and Jim using my stuff feels surreal to say the least.

I’m not sure which amps he’s using now. I know he used to use a Super Reverb/Tweed amp blend with a drive in front, but I don’t know if he’s still using that same setup. Jim is fond of the JTM 45 model. I think that one gets closest to his main Marshall head in his studio.

And forever ago, I saw your video with the Yamaha Troy Van Leeuwen signature guitar. I have one, and you’re the only other person I’ve ever seen with one. We did a couple festivals with QOTSA and I was hoping to run into him to tell him how much I loved that guitar. Never saw him though. Womp womp. I’m gonna have to pull that one out again to scratch my P-90 itch.
 

Bman

Power User
Very tempted. I have the OH MRBW GNR pack. I've found a tone in those that work for me for recording or low volumes, but am struggling to dial in loud/live tone. I feel pretty clueless about IR's, except that I have found that the traditional mic combos that most like sound good to me. Do you recommend using a single mic IR for live/loud use and using the proximity settings to push the FRFR speaker? And if so which of these would you recommend?
 

shaunb

Experienced
Same here. I’m a huge Failure fan. Fantastic Planet is easily in my top 5 favorite albums of all time, and I bought a Fractal because I saw Ken post a picture of his and I knew it had to be awesome if he was using one. Clarity is also in my top 5, so to have Ken and Jim using my stuff feels surreal to say the least.

I’m not sure which amps he’s using now. I know he used to use a Super Reverb/Tweed amp blend with a drive in front, but I don’t know if he’s still using that same setup. Jim is fond of the JTM 45 model. I think that one gets closest to his main Marshall head in his studio.

And forever ago, I saw your video with the Yamaha Troy Van Leeuwen signature guitar. I have one, and you’re the only other person I’ve ever seen with one. We did a couple festivals with QOTSA and I was hoping to run into him to tell him how much I loved that guitar. Never saw him though. Womp womp. I’m gonna have to pull that one out again to scratch my P-90 itch.


Fantastic Planet is amazing.
That was Ken's first time producing too if I recall correctly? Love it.

That Troy Van Leeuwen Yamaha is a pretty awesome guitar, it sounds and feels amazing. Even though my PRS Custom 22 is always going to be my number 1 I can say without a doubt that the TVL is the sexiest guitar I own.

Really nice balance between vintage and modern and super solid for its price point.
I bought it when I worked at Yamaha Music Australia and I kinda wish I bought a black one as well for a matching pair.

It's my only P90 guitar and I love it.
 
Thanks man! To be honest, I never liked 160 captures for the same reason. I was pretty anti-160 until a friend encouraged me to grab one and try it... so I did. I dunno if I just got lucky with a great one or what, but I love that the low end is full but not bloated, and there's nice detail on the top end without being brash. That became my go-to ribbon mic along with the KSM313 when you "just want something different than a 121," ya know?

And I saw that you're a fellow Nashvillian. Hit me up sometime and we'll hang.
-Justin

Absolutely, I'd love to hang! Thanks for the SM7 tip as well. I setup the SM7 C with a bit of m160C blended in to taste at rehearsal tonight and it was great! Just seemed to have a little extra something going on in the midrange.
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
Very tempted. I have the OH MRBW GNR pack. I've found a tone in those that work for me for recording or low volumes, but am struggling to dial in loud/live tone. I feel pretty clueless about IR's, except that I have found that the traditional mic combos that most like sound good to me. Do you recommend using a single mic IR for live/loud use and using the proximity settings to push the FRFR speaker? And if so which of these would you recommend?

Ah yes, the age old question "what should I use when playing live?" There are quite a few things to consider, and each person's solution is as personal as the guitar they choose to play. If we met in person over a cup of coffee, I could talk about it for hours. Since we're here on a forum, I'll try to be brief.

An IR is like a snapshot of a physical cab, a mic in a specific location, and the outboard gear chain the mic runs through. It's basically creating a digital version of the real cab and mic-up that you can use anywhere and recall at any time. When they're done correctly, an IR will sound identical to the cab, speakers, and mics used to create it.

You can use a single mic if that mic placement ticks all the tone boxes you're looking for, and if it doesn't, you might need a different mic placement or may want to blend it with another mic to fill out the missing frequency holes you're looking for. I personally don't use the Proximity parameter simply because it's just a low end EQ boost and I'd rather get my low end from natural mic'ed sources. But if that's what gets the tone you're after, go for it! The magic black box has a hundred ways to sculpt and fine tune your tone, and Proximity is a cool tool that saves time for a lot of people. But if you CAN, try blending in a ribbon mic until it gives you that low end fullness naturally.

When I go for a live tone, I like going with a studio style mic-up. A slightly brighter dynamic mic blended with a neutral ribbon mic in order to get detail and clarity out of the midrange and top end along with body and chunk for the low end without being boomy. I dial in a tone at low to mid volume and make sure that it sounds and feels good in my hands. Then I'll goose the volume and make small GEQ cuts to the main "live" problem areas... typically between 1-3k (where the vocal tends to live), but not too much. Just enough to tame anything that jumps out at me without compromising the character of the amp. Remember, any decent sound guy will tune a PA with frequency analyzers and well-recorded music, so if it sounds good in a studio, it should sound good in the room. If you go too dark with your live tone, you'll be lost in the mix and then nobody is happy.

Lastly, but most importantly, make sure your FRFR cab is tuned. Play music thorough it that you know and love and use the Output Graphic EQ on the Axe to make adjustments. If you play a song through it and think "whoa, that upper midrange is ripping my head off" or "I feel like the low end is missing something" or "the midrange feels boxy," make the adjustments so that it sounds "right" to you. Once your cab is tuned, it'll be easy to dial in a great tone with minimal effort.

So much for being brief. Hopefully SOMETHING in here will help you. HA!
 

Bman

Power User
thanks for the response. I'm gonna buy simply because you took the time to indulge me. So the most common mic combo is the 121 & 57, right? At least that's what I've been seeing. Of course that's two separate tracks being blended to shape the tone in a studio environment (at least if I follow Tim Pierce's set up....I'm no studio musician). I'm fortunate enough that I do have great FRFR options in a Xitone and DXR10's. The Xitone pretty much is as flat as my mind can imagine. The only thing holding me back is me.

Thanks
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
thanks for the response. I'm gonna buy simply because you took the time to indulge me. So the most common mic combo is the 121 & 57, right? At least that's what I've been seeing. Of course that's two separate tracks being blended to shape the tone in a studio environment (at least if I follow Tim Pierce's set up....I'm no studio musician). I'm fortunate enough that I do have great FRFR options in a Xitone and DXR10's. The Xitone pretty much is as flat as my mind can imagine. The only thing holding me back is me.

Thanks

Thank you so much! The 57+121 is a very common and great sounding mic combo. If you were in a studio with the real cab and mics, it WOULD take up two channels, but these have all been summed down to a single track, so it doesn’t need a stereo cab block if that’s what you mean. Also, try the 57+160 mix in the M25-1 folder. That’s been a very popular IR.

I would start with the Quick Play folders. They contain 8 files of single mics and mic mixes to give you an overview of that speaker. Then try Producer Mixes if you want mic mixes or Producer Favorite Single Mics if you want to try some singles. Let me know if you have any questions or if there’s anything I can do to help.
 

Bman

Power User
I do like the 57+160 mixes. I'm finding that when I blend them seperately (either 57+121 or 57+160) it seems to be more present or immediate which I'm gravitating more towards. I think I've learned more in the past 2 hours than in the last year running through the cab pack.
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
I do like the 57+160 mixes. I'm finding that when I blend them seperately (either 57+121 or 57+160) it seems to be more present or immediate which I'm gravitating more towards. I think I've learned more in the past 2 hours than in the last year running through the cab pack.

I offset some of the files in my mixes to sweeten the top end a little bit, but I list the mics in each mix in case you like them but want to tweak them a bit. That’s probably what you’re hearing with the 57+121 and 57+160 mixes. I’m glad you’re learning a lot and having fun! Also, for complete authenticity, make sure your cab block high cut is all the way up. That’s how I run it whenever I’m making mixes or auditioning files.
 

Bman

Power User
I offset some of the files in my mixes to sweeten the top end a little bit, but I list the mics in each mix in case you like them but want to tweak them a bit. That’s probably what you’re hearing with the 57+121 and 57+160 mixes. I’m glad you’re learning a lot and having fun! Also, for complete authenticity, make sure your cab block high cut is all the way up. That’s how I run it whenever I’m making mixes or auditioning files.

Ahh..thx for the tip on the cab cut. I've got my 'standard' 82/9000 cut going on. I what may be a dumb question, but hey...the internet is for idiots like me: When using an IR for recording is it best to not turn on the proximity effect? I feel like it's something to dial in for thump in my monitor but may be 'noise' within a mix. I suppose I could record a part to compare but I'm obviously being lazy (or what I term...'efficient').

The 57/160 combo has a clarity to it that I like.
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
Ahh..thx for the tip on the cab cut. I've got my 'standard' 82/9000 cut going on. I what may be a dumb question, but hey...the internet is for idiots like me: When using an IR for recording is it best to not turn on the proximity effect? I feel like it's something to dial in for thump in my monitor but may be 'noise' within a mix. I suppose I could record a part to compare but I'm obviously being lazy (or what I term...'efficient').

The 57/160 combo has a clarity to it that I like.

That’s not a dumb question at all. First of all, what amp model are you using? Low end feels good when you’re playing solo, but you have to be careful with it when you’re recording or else it can muddy up your mix, especially that 120Hz range that default Proximity is set to. If you’re playing high gain with a Friedman or Mesa, the bass knob should give you more than enough low end, but if you’re using a Plexi or 800 style amp, adding a touch can help fill it out a bit. Once you’ve recorded your guitars and can hear them in the mix, you can always high pass them in post until they feel big without getting in the way of the bass. I always find that recording guitars a little on the bright side makes them feel wider and sit in the mix better and doesn’t give you the muffled “blanket over the guitar cab” sound once you hear it in context with the other instruments.
 

MattHank

New Member
I just bought this pack and I have to say this is awesome! Very balanced sounding irs, I immediately found a perfect Marshall sound! I have several other greenback ir packs, but they always lack something. But these irs have perfect low end and the high end is just right, no ear pearcing highs. Thanks!
 

Brownmatthall

Power User
Having been away from the forum and playing altogether for a long time, coming back to the beta firmware on the 2 and this cab pack have been huge inspirations for me creatively and I can't wait to put some recordings together using these IRs. They sound the way I would expect a cab mic'd up to sound with very little tampering and that rawness is what i appreciate about them the most. I had a snow day off of work today which let me start to dig in to the pack and I've gravitated towards the single mic captures using the 57, 121, and the U47 which I was very happy to see used. Eventually I'll start mixing mics but I'm perfectly happy using the singles and can cover whatever ground I need to with the handful I've settled on (mainly the 57 capture 2A and 2C on speaker 2). Hoping to have a recording or 2 up by the end of the week :)
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
I just bought this pack and I have to say this is awesome! Very balanced sounding irs, I immediately found a perfect Marshall sound! I have several other greenback ir packs, but they always lack something. But these irs have perfect low end and the high end is just right, no ear pearcing highs. Thanks!

Yes! I'm so happy to hear that! I really appreciate your comments. Thanks for taking the time to stop by and share your thoughts. Which IR's have you been using the most?

Having been away from the forum and playing altogether for a long time, coming back to the beta firmware on the 2 and this cab pack have been huge inspirations for me creatively and I can't wait to put some recordings together using these IRs. They sound the way I would expect a cab mic'd up to sound with very little tampering and that rawness is what i appreciate about them the most. I had a snow day off of work today which let me start to dig in to the pack and I've gravitated towards the single mic captures using the 57, 121, and the U47 which I was very happy to see used. Eventually I'll start mixing mics but I'm perfectly happy using the singles and can cover whatever ground I need to with the handful I've settled on (mainly the 57 capture 2A and 2C on speaker 2). Hoping to have a recording or 2 up by the end of the week :)

Man, I'm so glad you're finding inspiration with the new FW and these cabs. It's crazy, I was mainly using the M25-1 files while blending in some of the M25-2, but I tried out your suggestion of the the M25-2 57 2A with my main Friedman patch.... Good Lawd.... it's just MEAN. I like it with the 2B as well and spent the last half hour flicking back and forth and can't decide which one I like more. I guess the good thing is that if I ever get into a "tone rut,' I can just use the other one for a slight change in flavor and be set, or track stereo guitars with them hard panned for some more width. Thanks for the tip!
 

Brownmatthall

Power User
Yes! I'm so happy to hear that! I really appreciate your comments. Thanks for taking the time to stop by and share your thoughts. Which IR's have you been using the most?



Man, I'm so glad you're finding inspiration with the new FW and these cabs. It's crazy, I was mainly using the M25-1 files while blending in some of the M25-2, but I tried out your suggestion of the the M25-2 57 2A with my main Friedman patch.... Good Lawd.... it's just MEAN. I like it with the 2B as well and spent the last half hour flicking back and forth and can't decide which one I like more. I guess the good thing is that if I ever get into a "tone rut,' I can just use the other one for a slight change in flavor and be set, or track stereo guitars with them hard panned for some more width. Thanks for the tip!
I think I'm gonna end up using one on the left and the other on the right, they're both right up my alley tonally haha. I really can't wait to get home and do some more digging!
 
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