Year and half later; still not happy with Axe-Fx 3

[bdrepko]

Wonderful post from Austin Buddy!

What I find is every few months I have another breakthrough and all of a sudden, presets which I loved sound horrible and I re-program them.

Big recent discovery for me was the Pete Thorn presets, simply because if you listen to the cab - it’s really bright, more by a long way that I’d ever have chosen.

But in using these, and then ‘compensating’ with the amp settings - it sounds much more ‘real’. For example with the Jubilee/AFD amp - I’ve just started using the ML Labs Appetite IR. I always found this much too bright before, now I selected the IR first and dialled in the amp after (something I’ve never done before) - wow!

Then - again and again, watching out for compression throughout the signal chain, try and reduce as much as you can - only put it in where it should be. I find this is a common trait in digital - it’s just too, too easy to go overboard

Similarly, reducing the amount of delay/reverb - that makes it sound much more in the room.

Finally(!) - I’ve rediscovered the factory IRs, they really are good - I’ve bought nearly 2000 IRs (my III is basically full) - but actually there’s so much quality in the factory set, for the vanilla stuff why not?

Finally(2)! - experiment with the IR length parameter, changes the character of the IR quite drastically on occasion

It is definitely a journey. Every once in a while I will experiment with new amps and cabs. The latest main preset I am using is the JMP1 OD1 with an OwnHammer MAR EVM IR and this is by far the best tone I have found yet in this amazing box. Got to finally hear it live in the mix last night. It just gets better and better.

 

[dongzo]

We all know that the axe-iii can provide almost any guitar sound you can imagine. But it doesn't work for all.
What I don't understand is why the OP actually still have the unit after a year and a half without getting the tone he wants....I would have sold it long time ago

 

[rossipedia]

$2K+ USD is a hell of a sunk cost

 

[austinbuddy]

It is definitely a journey. Every once in a while I will experiment with new amps and cabs. The latest main preset I am using is the JMP1 OD1 with an OwnHammer MAR EVM IR and this is by far the best tone I have found yet in this amazing box. Got to finally hear it live in the mix last night. It just gets better and better.

The JMP-1 and all the preamp amp models in the Axe-Fx III/FM3 are woefully under appreciated choices in my view. Most are VERY versatile. I can get a ZZ Top Plexi sound out of the JMP Bass shift OD2 that is every bit as good as the real Plexi models. Worth a look for sure!

 

[Melten]

The JMP-1 and all the preamp amp models in the Axe-Fx III/FM3 are woefully under appreciated choices in my view. Most are VERY versatile. I can get a ZZ Top Plexi sound out of the JMP Bass shift OD2 that is every bit as good as the real Plexi models. Worth a look for sure!

These are models of preamps, but with some 'appropriate' power amp attached, right?

 

[unix-guy]

These are models of preamps, but with some 'appropriate' power amp attached, right?

Yes.

I think the wiki and/or Yek's Amp Guide might have details on what power amp is used with each different preamp model.

 

[Legaato]

It really sounds like you're just adding too much of everything. The Axe has SO many parameters to tweak that it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling like you should adjust them all. I'm a huge fan of the "ballpark" method where you start with an amp and cab block and nothing else. Leave everything at the default setting and see if that amp gets you into the ballpark of the tone you're looking for. If it doesn't, try a different amp. If you're trying to get a tight, punchy tone from an amp that just isn't made to do that you'll drive yourself crazy trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, trust me I've been stuck in that mindset before with the Axe Ultra back in the day. Also, the best advice anyone could give about dialing tone is to use your ears, not your eyes. Some amps sound amazing with the bass cranked, others sound absolutely terrible.

 

[Bodde]

Very good posts everybody! I think the best way to get to know your Axe fx is by starting from scratch. Forget about the factory presets and other user presets and just start with an amp and cab block, nothing else. Then go from there.

That being said I think it should be made much easier and less time consuming to find the right IR. If you want a Fender twin sound for example having a twin amp and Fender twin cab should be all you need as a starting point. If you want a Vox sound look up the AC30 amp and matching cab and there you go. Unfortunately it doesn’t always work that way. Not sure why not. Maybe the IR’s are not good or whatever. I can not judge. Most of the times when having the most ‘logic’ or historically correct combination it doesn’t sound like the real amp right away.

Maybe it would be a good idea for the future to have certain fixed pre set amp and cab pairs in the Axe fx? Certain amps that need a specific cab to match just like the original combo? So that choosing the amp would automatically choose an appropriate and matching cab as a default or starting point. I think that would make it a lot easier and less time consuming, especially for newbies, but also for more advanced users.

 

[phil92]

Very good posts everybody! I think the best way to get to know your Axe fx is by starting from scratch. Forget about the factory presets and other user presets and just start with an amp and cab block, nothing else. Then go from there.

That being said I think it should be made much easier and less time consuming to find the right IR. If you want a Fender twin sound for example having a twin amp and Fender twin cab should be all you need as a starting point. If you want a Vox sound look up the AC30 amp and matching cab and there you go. Unfortunately it doesn’t always work that way. Not sure why not. Maybe the IR’s are not good or whatever. I can not judge. Most of the times when having the most ‘logic’ or historically correct combination it doesn’t sound like the real amp right away.

Maybe it would be a good idea for the future to have certain fixed pre set amp and cab pairs in the Axe fx? Certain amps that need a specific cab to match just like the original combo? So that choosing the amp would automatically choose an appropriate and matching cab as a default or starting point. I think that would make it a lot easier and less time consuming, especially for newbies, but also for more advanced users.

well, an IR is not a "cab", it's a cab miked with a certain microphone in a certain position at a certain angle.

 

[Bodde]

well, an IR is not a "cab", it's a cab miked with a certain microphone in a certain position at a certain angle.

I know. But then the same thing applies. Fixed/default Matching amp-cab or matching amp-cab-mic combos if you will would be a great idea. At least that is what I think.

 

[RoketRdr]

well, an IR is not a "cab", it's a cab miked with a certain microphone in a certain position at a certain angle.

If that's how you want to look at it then you need to throw out every digital reproduction of ANYTHING on this planet. It must all ALL be fake garbage then.

 

[phil92]

If that's how you want to look at it then you need to throw out every digital reproduction of ANYTHING on this planet. It must all ALL be fake garbage then.

umm, no, that is literally what a cabinet IR is

 

[dr bonkers]

well, an IR is not a "cab", it's a cab miked with a certain microphone in a certain position at a certain angle.

You forgot one part of the equation in your description- the position of the cab itself in the room where the recording is happening.

Before I started capturing, I purchased some commercial files, went through a lot of free files, and went through all the Factory cabs in the II.

Among the files I didn't bond with was a common thread of the rooms used for the recording imparting acoustic artifacts and smear. This would give audio version, when playing in your own room, of a Moebius strip of a room within a room (and if you add reverb, within yet another room).

Some of the best recordings of guitar are where you are not aware from the recording what were the characteristics of the room as there's no flutter echo, boominess, smear, or noteworthy room resonances.

One can try using a equalizer to try and get the room resonances out, but that causes unwanted phase shifts that can introduce new problems in removing you from the playing experience.

The positioning of a cab with a room of certain acoustic properties makes all the difference in getting pleasing results too.

The best IR files IMO are the ones where the cab and speaker interaction is all you notice with room being a negligible factor in that you can't describe where it was recorded.

That was my goal for the ones I produce and it really helps players in live and recording settings forget that they are using a modeler when creating art.

 

[phil92]

You forgot one part of the equation in your description- the position of the cab itself in the room where the recording is happening.

Before I started capturing, I purchased some commercial files, went through a lot of free files, and went through all the Factory cabs in the II.

Among the files I didn't bond with was a common thread of the rooms used for the recording imparting acoustic artifacts and smear. This would give audio version, when playing in your own room, of a Moebius strip of a room within a room (and if you add reverb, within yet another room).

Some of the best recordings of guitar are where you are not aware from the recording what were the characteristics of the room as there's no flutter echo, boominess, smear, or noteworthy room resonances.

One can try using a equalizer to try and get the room resonances out, but that causes unwanted phase shifts that can introduce new problems in removing you from the playing experience.

The positioning of a cab with a room of certain acoustic properties makes all the difference in getting pleasing results too.

The best IR files IMO are the ones where the cab and speaker interaction is all you notice with room being a negligible factor in that you can't describe where it was recorded.

That was my goal for the ones I produce and it really helps players in live and recording settings forget that they are using a modeler when creating art.

Absolutely. Reducing the IR length can help getting rid of room artifacts. But sometimes it deadens the IR.

My point was that an IR is not a representation of a cab like you would hear it in the room but of a cab miked up under very specific circumstances.

Of course you could still just go ahead and pick any SM57 / 121 combination as a default, but the more I sift through IRs the more I realise there’s no one size fits all

 

[unix-guy]

Maybe it would be a good idea for the future to have certain fixed pre set amp and cab pairs in the Axe fx? Certain amps that need a specific cab to match just like the original combo? So that choosing the amp would automatically choose an appropriate and matching cab as a default or starting point. I think that would make it a lot easier and less time consuming, especially for newbies, but also for more advanced users.

Pretty much what the Austin Buddy Naked Tones preset pack does

Also. Yek's Amp Guide has recommended IRs for each amp model that would be "authentic".

 

[FractalAudio]

The OP's issue has been addressed so thread is closed.