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Year and half later; still not happy with Axe-Fx 3

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AdamL1112

New Member
Hi Everybody,

I am hoping to get some help with dialing in the Axe-Fx 3. I got mine around a year and half ago and I was pretty disappointed right out of the gate. Any preset sounded weak, lifeless, digital and that was the case with any guitar or through the studio monitors (Yamaha HS-8) or headphones (Audiotechnica ATH-M50x).

Now I remembered years ago talking to someone about the Axe ULTRA and he said that it was good, but very difficult to dial in. I figured that was the case with the Axe-Fx 3 and I just needed to learn all this stuff. Over the last year and half I with recording songs, read forums, watched videos and become fairly familiar with what to listen for and technical jargon. I bought presets and cab IR's and a mission gemini 2. After all this it still isn't stacking up to what other people are getting out of it and has yet to justify the high price tag. I've been thinking that maybe this just isn't for me and to try something else.

I had sent an email to support with soundcloud clips recorded via USB and they got back to me. They didn't think what I had posted sounded, but he said he wasn't all that familiar with metal tones.

So good people please check these out and let me know what you think.

Here are soundcloud samples with descriptions of various sounds I've gotten from the Axe Fx 3; presets I used are attached.

1) 5150 Adam Preset- This is a preset made with a Savatage Streets tone match block that I had found on Axe Change; So far its one of the better sounds I've gotten with the unit.


Attached preset is EVH 5150 IBZ Pres Eb.syx.

2) FAS Modern 3. This is a preset that came with the unit that I've never edited or touched since a couple days ago.


Attached preset is FAS Modern III.

3) The Thrill EP Version 2020 Instrumental Final; This is a song I had recently recorded using the EVH 5150 preset I had made. Guitars are multi tracked and have various effects on them.


4) Uber Chugga 2; This is a preset that came with the unit that I've never used until today; unedited.

.


All these sounds seem to be really lacking for me; like they all seem hollow and lack punch. They also seem really different compared to other peoples recordings. Like this video ; He uses the FAS Modern 3 and his sound is just so much better. The one I use is kind of similar but seems to be missing a giant chunk of bottom end sound is gone. All sounds were recorded today through Reaper and with a Ibanez RG Prestige that use recently restrung in Standard tuning.

Thanks for reading!
 

Attachments

  • EVH 5150- Ibz Pres Eb.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 10
  • Savatage Streets.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 3
  • Uber Chugga 2.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 4
  • FAS Modern III.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 3

jlynnb1

Axe-Master
the Axe is easier than ever to dial in. None of those examples sounded good or "right". The first one with the tone match block was very boomy/bassy. If i get a chance I'll pull those presets in and look at them but too many high profile people use it for it to be the Axe, has to be something amiss somewhere.
 

Adinfinitum

Experienced
I've had an Axe-FX since 2008. Playing through Studio Monitors (and I tried A Lot of different ones) all sounds shrill and fizzy. When I got the Atomic FR, everything sounded great. The CLR sounded awesome - when I A/Bed my PLEXI 1987 Through a 1960 cab to my Plexi patch at equivalent ear damaging dbs, and clicking the AB switch, they sounded extremely close that I couldn't say I preferred 1 to the other. Honest.

Try Austin's packs and see how he programs basic amps. His pack saved my AX8 from Craigslist.

Remember, VOLUME, IRs, and using the proper quality monitor (whether a Friedman AS12, Line6's new Cab, Tech 21's, CLR, or your favorite tube Poweramp and speaker cab, make all the difference. The whole signal chain has to work.

Don't give up.
 

Adinfinitum

Experienced
Chris is correct - gain staging is extremely important. I prefer Austin's running the output all the way, and then adjust the patches to even them out. Other do it other ways. Chris, Leon, Chris C, Yek's wikis - lots of videos, free axechange latches, and help out there

Find an Axechange Patch that sounds good and Analyze it. Austin sort of does the heavy lifting in his basic amp pack.
 

jlynnb1

Axe-Master
I've had an Axe-FX since 2008. Playing through Studio Monitors (and I tried A Lot of different ones) all sounds shrill and fizzy. When I got the Atomic FR, everything sounded great. The CLR sounded awesome - when I A/Bed my PLEXI 1987 Through a 1960 cab to my Plexi patch at equivalent ear damaging dbs, and clicking the AB switch, they sounded extremely close that I couldn't say I preferred 1 to the other. Honest.

Try Austin's packs and see how he programs basic amps. His pack saved my AX8 from Craigslist.

Remember, VOLUME, IRs, and using the proper quality monitor (whether a Friedman AS12, Line6's new Cab, Tech 21's, CLR, or your favorite tube Poweramp and speaker cab, make all the difference. The whole signal chain has to work.

Don't give up.
about the same amount of time playing Fractal...never had those issues with monitors. so strange how different experiences can be.
 

johnnypig

Inspired
@AdamL1112
I had a similar feeling for awhile until I discovered Cab Smoothing. There are also many ways to change amp response and compression throughout the amp block, not only on the Dynamics page. 18db slope on the cab block HPF can also help on the low end getting the mud out under ~50hz but leaving the thump ~80hz there.
Try the multiband compressor block too.
Good luck!
 

chris

Legend!
the 5150 Adam preset - wow that's a ton of gain.

even with the guitar muted, there is a "shhhhhh" sound of noise from all the gain. even though the 5153 Red amp is only on input drive of 4, the Drive block before it has additional Drive of 6. not sure what this drive block is trying to do, but if it's the classic "tube screamer in front to cut low end", typically that is a very low drive level and a high output level to slam the front end of the amp.

on the Axe you don't need to do this (though you still can) as in the amp block you can use the Cut and Input Boost to accomplish these things.

even just bypassing the Drive block improved the tone and got rid of the huge amount of noise from gain.

the GEQ block later in the preset is basically turning all frequencies up. again, i'm not sure the intention of this block, but it's currently just increasing the volume. this may be why the Amp block is set to -30dB, which is pretty low - needed to balance all the other volume boosts going on.

i bypassed the ToneMatch to see what's underlying. the Cab block i notice has its low cut set at 161Hz on the IR itself and 100 on the overall filter too. this is taking a lot of low end out after the amp block, which may be leading to the "hollow" sound you hear. maybe this was done in response to the ToneMatch. but the TM is definitely a source of the hollow, scooped sound going on. turning it on has way too many lows. this preset in general lacks mids, meaning the tone will get lost in the mix and just get in the way of bass guitar and kick drum.

here's a recording of the preset as downloaded. 1st is the untouched preset.

the 2nd part is turning off Drive, TMA, GEQ, and setting all Low and High cuts to defaults in the Cab block.

now this isn't a "killer tone" or anything, but i think it's better than the original. there was just way too much gain originally, as well as boosts of EQ that didn't really do anything specific.

and the tone can be even better than this - i still think there's too much low end somewhere, and the Amp controls have Bass and Treble at 12 o' clock, so i think there are basic adjustments that can be made there. but just those changes added clarity to the tone, while maintaining a "high gain" sound.


you should be able to hear a huge "whirrrr" type sound in the low end in the original preset. that's just way too much low end made even more noticeable from a ton of gain. that "whirrrr" is reduced a lot in the 2nd clip after removing those other things.

i've only looked at this preset so far, but it could be a case of "too much everything" which is normal when we can play quietly with endless gain. if this were a real amp, it would be very loud in the room and the guitar would be uncontrollable due to all the volume and gain happening. someone might naturally dial these things back to be able to control the guitar, and at louder volumes, the bass would be excruciating and painful to listen to.

i'll look at the other presets for a bit and add more if i find similarities. i know some were factory presets - those are just starting points. the guitar we use, our playing technique and our ears determine what a preset ultimately sounds like. but in this preset, i feel comfortable saying that factually speaking, there was too much gain and a lot of EQ that made the tone less than desirable.

--
ok the other 3 presets. that Savatage Streets ToneMatch - i just don't like it. it is hollow sounding itself. maybe it works in specific other situations, but here i don't like it at all. i'd just use a cab block.

the 2 factory presets, i would need to adjust them to my guitar to sound good. Uber has way too much low end - same problem as the other preset - and the high end is too shrill at the same time. again, any preset could work in specific situations. the band mix is also a component of how good an electric guitar sounds. maybe the Uber preset would work best as an "effect tone", way in the background to build layers, but not as a main tone.

mids are so important even in metal guitar sounds. without it, the guitar disappears in the mix. too much bass makes the amp gain uncontrollable and sound flubby.

have you created any tones while playing along to music? without a band in the room to mix to, playing along to your favorite recordings can help a lot, as you might be able to hear if your guitar tone is blocking out the bass guitar or kick, or if it's conflicting with the vocals, etc. but you have to listen for that stuff too.
 
Last edited:

jon

Fractal Fanatic
the 5150 Adam preset - wow that's a ton of gain.

even with the guitar muted, there is a "shhhhhh" sound of noise from all the gain. even though the 5153 Red amp is only on input drive of 4, the Drive block before it has additional Drive of 6. not sure what this drive block is trying to do, but if it's the classic "tube screamer in front to cut low end", typically that is a very low drive level and a high output level to slam the front end of the amp.

on the Axe you don't need to do this (though you still can) as in the amp block you can use the Cut and Input Boost to accomplish these things.

even just bypassing the Drive block improved the tone and got rid of the huge amount of noise from gain.

the GEQ block later in the preset is basically turning all frequencies up. again, i'm not sure the intention of this block, but it's currently just increasing the volume. this may be why the Amp block is set to -30dB, which is pretty low - needed to balance all the other volume boosts going on.

i bypassed the ToneMatch to see what's underlying. the Cab block i notice has its low cut set at 161Hz on the IR itself and 100 on the overall filter too. this is taking a lot of low end out after the amp block, which may be leading to the "hollow" sound you hear. maybe this was done in response to the ToneMatch. but the TM is definitely a source of the hollow, scooped sound going on. turning it on has way too many lows. this preset in general lacks mids, meaning the tone will get lost in the mix and just get in the way of bass guitar and kick drum.

here's a recording of the preset as downloaded. 1st is the untouched preset.

the 2nd part is turning off Drive, TMA, GEQ, and setting all Low and High cuts to defaults in the Cab block.

now this isn't a "killer tone" or anything, but i think it's better than the original. there was just way too much gain originally, as well as boosts of EQ that didn't really do anything specific.

and the tone can be even better than this - i still think there's too much low end somewhere, and the Amp controls have Bass and Treble at 12 o' clock, so i think there are basic adjustments that can be made there. but just those changes added clarity to the tone, while maintaining a "high gain" sound.


you should be able to hear a huge "whirrrr" type sound in the low end in the original preset. that's just way too much low end made even more noticeable from a ton of gain. that "whirrrr" is reduced a lot in the 2nd clip after removing those other things.

i've only looked at this preset so far, but it could be a case of "too much everything" which is normal when we can play quietly with endless gain. if this were a real amp, it would be very loud in the room and the guitar would be uncontrollable due to all the volume and gain happening. someone might naturally dial these things back to be able to control the guitar, and at louder volumes, the bass would be excruciating and painful to listen to.

i'll look at the other presets for a bit and add more if i find similarities. i know some were factory presets - those are just starting points. the guitar we use, our playing technique and our ears determine what a preset ultimately sounds like. but in this preset, i feel comfortable saying that factually speaking, there was too much gain and a lot of EQ that made the tone less than desirable.

--
ok the other 3 presets. that Savatage Streets ToneMatch - i just don't like it. it is hollow sounding itself. maybe it works in specific other situations, but here i don't like it at all. i'd just use a cab block.

the 2 factory presets, i would need to adjust them to my guitar to sound good. Uber has way too much low end - same problem as the other preset - and the high end is too shrill at the same time. again, any preset could work in specific situations. the band mix is also a component of how good an electric guitar sounds. maybe the Uber preset would work best as an "effect tone", way in the background to build layers, but not as a main tone.

mids are so important even in metal guitar sounds. without it, the guitar disappears in the mix. too much bass makes the amp gain uncontrollable and sound flubby.

have you created any tones while playing along to music? without a band in the room to mix to, playing along to your favorite recordings can help a lot, as you might be able to hear if your guitar tone is blocking out the bass guitar or kick, or if it's conflicting with the vocals, etc. but you have to listen for that stuff too.
Great job Chris!!! Amazing resource we have in you on this forum!👍
 

chris

Legend!
i just remembered there's a dang RTA right in the box...

so here is the original preset with just a low E ringing out
Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 1.41.36 PM.png

and here is what i modified same low E ringing
Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 1.41.27 PM.png

you can see in the original, the Mids are low and there's a peak in the low end just under 200Hz - that's a big source of the problem. a benefit of the original vs mine could bee seen in the lack of content under 63 Hz, but that can be adjust easily if it's a problem.

in the 2nd image, things are a bit more balanced, with no real peaks in the low end, and the mid range is higher, giving more clarity to the core tone. as i said, there is still too much low end content i think, and i could further reduce that if needed.

thinking about this made me think of another thing - what does our guitar sound like by itself? what does its RTA curve look like. so here is mine, a Majesty Music Man, striking the low e string, bridge pickup:
Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 1.48.10 PM.png

so now i know that my guitar has a good amount of mids, which can give clarity to any sound i create. there's an even amount of low end, but some peaks so i know i may need to control the low end from my guitar. the high end falls off like most electrics, but there's a nice area around 2K gives me some high end clarity as well.

here's my neck pickup:
Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 1.52.31 PM.png

not too much difference - the pickups are balanced well. but there's way less high end, and a bit more low end - which i'd expect of course. but knowing this, i can make my tones better, not expecting a ton of high end out of my neck pickup because it's simply not creating it.

it'd be interesting to know these curves whenever we help anyone with tones. if their guitars have a curve with a a mid scoop right out of the box, that may be why the factory presets aren't sounding the same, or something similar.
 

AdamL1112

New Member
i just remembered there's a dang RTA right in the box...

so here is the original preset with just a low E ringing out
View attachment 67944

and here is what i modified same low E ringing
View attachment 67945

you can see in the original, the Mids are low and there's a peak in the low end just under 200Hz - that's a big source of the problem. a benefit of the original vs mine could bee seen in the lack of content under 63 Hz, but that can be adjust easily if it's a problem.

in the 2nd image, things are a bit more balanced, with no real peaks in the low end, and the mid range is higher, giving more clarity to the core tone. as i said, there is still too much low end content i think, and i could further reduce that if needed.

thinking about this made me think of another thing - what does our guitar sound like by itself? what does its RTA curve look like. so here is mine, a Majesty Music Man, striking the low e string, bridge pickup:
View attachment 67946

so now i know that my guitar has a good amount of mids, which can give clarity to any sound i create. there's an even amount of low end, but some peaks so i know i may need to control the low end from my guitar. the high end falls off like most electrics, but there's a nice area around 2K gives me some high end clarity as well.

here's my neck pickup:
View attachment 67947

not too much difference - the pickups are balanced well. but there's way less high end, and a bit more low end - which i'd expect of course. but knowing this, i can make my tones better, not expecting a ton of high end out of my neck pickup because it's simply not creating it.

it'd be interesting to know these curves whenever we help anyone with tones. if their guitars have a curve with a a mid scoop right out of the box, that may be why the factory presets aren't sounding the same, or something similar.


Hi, I really appreciate all your help with this. My technical knowledge isn't great so it will take some time to understand the things you have posted. My brother should be able to help me out later.

I'm also currently installing Austin Buddy pack that was suggested earlier. Gonna see what comes of that.
 

chris

Legend!
Hi, I really appreciate all your help with this. My technical knowledge isn't great so it will take some time to understand the things you have posted. My brother should be able to help me out later.

I'm also currently installing Austin Buddy pack that was suggested earlier. Gonna see what comes of that.
No prob. Basically the usual: too much bass, too much gain, and EQ and ToneMatch that don’t help. I’d start with just an amp and cab. Adjust things till it sounds good, then start adding other blocks to supplement that tone. If the amp and cab don’t sound good and balanced to begin with, other blocks might not help much.
 
Hi Everybody,

I am hoping to get some help with dialing in the Axe-Fx 3. I got mine around a year and half ago and I was pretty disappointed right out of the gate. Any preset sounded weak, lifeless, digital and that was the case with any guitar or through the studio monitors (Yamaha HS-8) or headphones (Audiotechnica ATH-M50x).

Now I remembered years ago talking to someone about the Axe ULTRA and he said that it was good, but very difficult to dial in. I figured that was the case with the Axe-Fx 3 and I just needed to learn all this stuff. Over the last year and half I with recording songs, read forums, watched videos and become fairly familiar with what to listen for and technical jargon. I bought presets and cab IR's and a mission gemini 2. After all this it still isn't stacking up to what other people are getting out of it and has yet to justify the high price tag. I've been thinking that maybe this just isn't for me and to try something else.

I had sent an email to support with soundcloud clips recorded via USB and they got back to me. They didn't think what I had posted sounded, but he said he wasn't all that familiar with metal tones.

So good people please check these out and let me know what you think.

Here are soundcloud samples with descriptions of various sounds I've gotten from the Axe Fx 3; presets I used are attached.

1) 5150 Adam Preset- This is a preset made with a Savatage Streets tone match block that I had found on Axe Change; So far its one of the better sounds I've gotten with the unit.


Attached preset is EVH 5150 IBZ Pres Eb.syx.

2) FAS Modern 3. This is a preset that came with the unit that I've never edited or touched since a couple days ago.


Attached preset is FAS Modern III.

3) The Thrill EP Version 2020 Instrumental Final; This is a song I had recently recorded using the EVH 5150 preset I had made. Guitars are multi tracked and have various effects on them.


4) Uber Chugga 2; This is a preset that came with the unit that I've never used until today; unedited.

.


All these sounds seem to be really lacking for me; like they all seem hollow and lack punch. They also seem really different compared to other peoples recordings. Like this video ; He uses the FAS Modern 3 and his sound is just so much better. The one I use is kind of similar but seems to be missing a giant chunk of bottom end sound is gone. All sounds were recorded today through Reaper and with a Ibanez RG Prestige that use recently restrung in Standard tuning.

Thanks for reading!
I'm not a high gain guy, but I'd say that in those tones there's just too much going on. Try less gain. Keep these numbers in mind. Add a post EQ (after cab) Bump 150hz to 200hz for body. Add 1K for punch/bite. Anything below 80hz-90hz is unnecessary. Anything about 10K (and down to 6k-7k sometimes) may also be unnecessary. If you crank gain, everything will just compress and if your low end is out of control, it turns into a huge mush.
 

RB2021

Inspired
SUBJECTIVITY WARNING

I've been playing with the preset. Chris has much more comprehensive thoughts than I but I noticed similar things. It seems like you are taking away things in one place where they should be and boosting them back in other places to compensate. Many low cuts and boosts, many gain stages. Ultimately I think the song you shared sounds really cool. But I hear the boomyness in the guitar drowning the bass. It still sounds awesome but that's my critical ear being harsh and looking for something wrong.

My main advice is to lose the tone match block. I avoid it mainly because I don't know what it's doing to the tone and I think it makes everything else in the Amp/Gain/EQ department less flexible. The one you have there is adding tons of boomyness and you are compensating with lots of cuts in other places to try to reign it in. Metal tone imo should get out of the way of the bass guitar and let that do its thing. I tend to dial mine in bright like Metallica. I do feel like I am struggling lately to get crushing modern metal tone. There are two reasons for that and neither happens to be the Axefx. The first is my pickups which aren't active. I'm working with a dimarzio crunch lab 7 and it gets that metallica dream theater thing well but falls short when looking for periphery or animals as leaders both of which I enjoy. The second is my skills, both playing and mixing.

I think the fact that your tone sounds great in the mix gets at a point which every person interested in AxeFx needs to remember. It sounds like a mic'd guitar cab, not like an amp behind you. You are dialing in the tone that goes directly into the mix or to the PA so it's going to be a whole new experience learning to dial it in. Also I should shout out Leon Todd on youtube (2112 here) for being a guru of all things fractal. If you aren't watching his videos you are missing out. Finally I would say don't be afraid to start from scratch now and then and just dial in something different once in a while. I often think I have something good then go back to it weeks later and I'm like... My new preset is way better than this! Your preset has so many tweaks and changes it's easy to get lost. Trying a less is more attitude might be to your benefit. I see you've thrown every trick in the book at this preset but I'd peel them away and try to learn which once are compatible and complementary.



I'm including a version of your preset that I toyed with. Trust that I am NO EXPERT on tone and I've had my AxeFx for a very productive three months so far, thanks to quarantine. I changed a ton of stuff including moving to factory cabs at a shorter IR length (Idk what's in your user banks but I just went for old reliable and used a 57 and a 121 on a recto cab). Non obvious stuff was setting Speaker Impedence Curve to recto small in part because of the mesa cab I have there. I lost the preamp settings in the cab block because I havn't figured out how to set it to something that's both noticeable and pleasant. This is just my take on a metal tone using your template to start off. Probably not what you are going for. I'd like to get more of a modern sounding mid scoop but this is my quick take. Also I couldn't resist throwing some reverb and delay on and noodling over your track. I quite liked it. Gives me Trivium sorts of vibes.

/SUBJECTIVITY WARNING
 

Attachments

  • EVH 5150- RB Modded.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 12

phil92

Experienced
Hi Everybody,

I am hoping to get some help with dialing in the Axe-Fx 3. I got mine around a year and half ago and I was pretty disappointed right out of the gate. Any preset sounded weak, lifeless, digital and that was the case with any guitar or through the studio monitors (Yamaha HS-8) or headphones (Audiotechnica ATH-M50x).

Now I remembered years ago talking to someone about the Axe ULTRA and he said that it was good, but very difficult to dial in. I figured that was the case with the Axe-Fx 3 and I just needed to learn all this stuff. Over the last year and half I with recording songs, read forums, watched videos and become fairly familiar with what to listen for and technical jargon. I bought presets and cab IR's and a mission gemini 2. After all this it still isn't stacking up to what other people are getting out of it and has yet to justify the high price tag. I've been thinking that maybe this just isn't for me and to try something else.

I had sent an email to support with soundcloud clips recorded via USB and they got back to me. They didn't think what I had posted sounded, but he said he wasn't all that familiar with metal tones.

So good people please check these out and let me know what you think.

Here are soundcloud samples with descriptions of various sounds I've gotten from the Axe Fx 3; presets I used are attached.

1) 5150 Adam Preset- This is a preset made with a Savatage Streets tone match block that I had found on Axe Change; So far its one of the better sounds I've gotten with the unit.


Attached preset is EVH 5150 IBZ Pres Eb.syx.

2) FAS Modern 3. This is a preset that came with the unit that I've never edited or touched since a couple days ago.


Attached preset is FAS Modern III.

3) The Thrill EP Version 2020 Instrumental Final; This is a song I had recently recorded using the EVH 5150 preset I had made. Guitars are multi tracked and have various effects on them.


4) Uber Chugga 2; This is a preset that came with the unit that I've never used until today; unedited.

.


All these sounds seem to be really lacking for me; like they all seem hollow and lack punch. They also seem really different compared to other peoples recordings. Like this video ; He uses the FAS Modern 3 and his sound is just so much better. The one I use is kind of similar but seems to be missing a giant chunk of bottom end sound is gone. All sounds were recorded today through Reaper and with a Ibanez RG Prestige that use recently restrung in Standard tuning.

Thanks for reading!

Hey Adam, I think the other guys have pretty much summed it up. I would only add: "keep it simple"; try amp, cab, nothing else for starters. Maybe some enhancer for width or a touch of reverb, especially when you're using headphones.

But basically I came to say that your song is great. Don't give up. With some properly dialed in guitar tones this thing is going to be brutal!
 

normanaj

Inspired
Get this course and be done with it. It will take you from mindlessly turning knobs to understanding exactly what to do and why your doing it (a method) to create great guitar tones no matter the gear your using. It has helped me personally so I thought I would share here.
It's currently on sale and they offer a full 30 day money back guarantee. I have no affiliation with him/them.
https://promixacademy.com/audio-courses/guitar-tone-mastery-by-chernobyl-studios/
 

chumbucket

Inspired
Hi, I really appreciate all your help with this. My technical knowledge isn't great so it will take some time to understand the things you have posted. My brother should be able to help me out later.

I'm also currently installing Austin Buddy pack that was suggested earlier. Gonna see what comes of that.

It's good that you've got the Austin Buddy pack. Check out the presets that he has listed under Fractal Amps. There are some good metal tones there that should need minor tone tweaks at the most to get you close to where you need to be. I like the preset called FAS Modern Tones v5.
 
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