Y u no thomann?

Clockwork Creep

Power User
Just purely out of curiosity.
Thomann is probably my favorite music shop in Europe.
Why doesn't Fractal sell their products there?
Why just G66?
 
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I wonder what would be the benefit for fractal/customers...

I think the price/quality of service/trust/efficiency ratio is probably optimal now just how it is.
 
Why Thomann ?
Never had chocolates with my orders by them.

Thomann website offers a better experience compared to other online german musicstores and they have a greater choice in the high end stuffs. Otherwise why not Musicstore or Muzik Produktiv ?

I have always had an excellent experience with G66. So why change ?
 
One could reasonably ask why you can't buy FAS gear at GC, or Sweetwater or other major US on-line music retailer.
I think we know that answer. Thomann is probably no different.
 
One could reasonably ask why you can't buy FAS gear at GC, or Sweetwater or other major US on-line music retailer.
I think we know that answer. Thomann is probably no different.
I actually don't know. Or might have forgotten. Could you please tell? PM me if it's a touchy subject.
 
Not a touchy subject. Just a business model.
The Axe Fx III price would most likely jump to $2999.00 at Sweetwater.
 
Not a touchy subject. Just a business model.
The Axe Fx III price would most likely jump to $2999.00 at Sweetwater.


Exactly, the more middlemen you add, the higher the end price as they all need to get a cut of the profit margin.

Now some will say “yeah but they’d sell more if they had them at more places....” and to that argument I’d have to disagree as they already are selling as fast as they can build them, so what would be the advantage of being listed “out of stock” at more retailers ?

Selling direct simply makes sense in this day and age, just like with cars. I’d rather buy direct from Tesla than bother with the outdated car dealership, haggling over price etc.
 
Not a touchy subject. Just a business model.
The Axe Fx III price would most likely jump to $2999.00 at Sweetwater.

That money in Fractal's pocket gives us years and years of support and development.

Use an Axe fx, you can play a firmware literally made today...

Sweetwater currently sells a TC Elec G-System for $1000, last firmware update September 2011
 
I can imagine plenty of reasons for "why not" :
  • Too much interaction with competitors (amp suppliers, effect suppliers, ...), so probably a less devoted servicewherewhere g66 is really focussed
  • Why go elsewhere if you're actually with the best ?
 
I wonder what would be the benefit for fractal/customers...

I think the price/quality of service/trust/efficiency ratio is probably optimal now just how it is.

I disagree. Service is very good, no contest there. Price wise G66 is a disaster as it basically costs me $900 more to order from them. And while G66 gives me free chocolates, Thomann gives me free shipping. I like chocolates, but I can get those for €5 in my local supermarket. I'll take free shipping any day over free chocolates.

Why Thomann ?
Never had chocolates with my orders by them.

A pack of Merci chocolates, which aren't exactly that expensive, costs me considerably less then shipping with G66. Thomann offers me free shipping above €100. I'll take the free shipping from Thomann and I'll buy the whole supply of Merci chocolates in my local store with my savings and probably still have some money left over.

Thomann website offers a better experience compared to other online german musicstores and they have a greater choice in the high end stuffs. Otherwise why not Musicstore or Muzik Produktiv ?

I have always had an excellent experience with G66. So why change ?

Because Thomann tries to keep its prices down and offers free shipping? And because its good to have options? As in competition?

One could reasonably ask why you can't buy FAS gear at GC, or Sweetwater or other major US on-line music retailer.
I think we know that answer. Thomann is probably no different.

I have never bought from GC or Sweetwater, as I'm in the EU. But Thomann has always served me very well. And it would be nice to have options. G66 being the sole dealer of Fractal stuff in Europe is not exactly motivating them to keep prices down if you ask me. And I don't care where my product comes from, as long as I can get the best deal for me. That probably sounds harsh, but unfortunately money does not grow on trees for me, it took me a whole year to save for my XL+ so if I have to make ends meet in order to buy FAS gear I'll take it where its cheapest.

Not a touchy subject. Just a business model.
The Axe Fx III price would most likely jump to $2999.00 at Sweetwater.

A new III at G66 is already €2,799.00. Which according to xe.com is already $3,142.75. In which case at $2999 please bring it on Thomann! I'm still saving money!

G66 has a fantastic service. Couldn't imagine anyone doing it better.

Thomann has always served me well, so has G66. In which case why not have both do it? And get some competition going. G66 NEVER follows any of the FAS sales. Who knows, maybe if they have some actual competition going with Thomann they finally will?

That money in Fractal's pocket gives us years and years of support and development.

Use an Axe fx, you can play a firmware literally made today...

Sweetwater currently sells a TC Elec G-System for $1000, last firmware update September 2011

So is that now Sweetwater;s fault? Blame TC Electronic for that. Sweetwater is just selling what TC Electronic is offering them. Also the G-System is not a modeler like the Axe FX. It's just effects. If they sound right, do you need constant firmware upgrades for those as well? Does Boss now have to offer firmware upgrades for its effects pedals too?

I can imagine plenty of reasons for "why not" :
  • Too much interaction with competitors (amp suppliers, effect suppliers, ...), so probably a less devoted servicewherewhere g66 is really focussed
  • Why go elsewhere if you're actually with the best ?

Because it would be nice to have the option? You know, as in free market capitalism? If I can't order directly from FAS and are basically ordered by them to use G66, that's not free market capitalism, that's almost a monopoly. And monopolies are bad for consumers. Very bad. Money is tight for me. When I have to chose between $900 more, tasty chocolates and good service from G66, vs. less service, but with a significant lower price in ordering, I'll take my chances with the cheaper supplier. And since I know that Thomann is reliable then that's not even an option. I want to have the right the chose. Which currently I do not have.
 
Fair from your point of view.

The shipping costs were 6€. I forgot about them.

Sure, I’d like to buy the the Axe-Fx for less and even be able to pick one in a Fnac or Mediamarkt. A lot less hassle and not have to mess with the f# waiting list.
 
Fair from your point of view.

The shipping costs were 6€. I forgot about them.

Sure, I’d like to buy the the Axe-Fx for less and even be able to pick one in a Fnac or Mediamarkt. A lot less hassle and not have to mess with the f# waiting list.

If FAS needs a waiting list just to sell direct because the demand is so high how would end retailers get stock ?
 
G66 is $3500 USD for an AFIII?? Wow. Pretty huge markup there..

Yeah, it sucks. And a mesa boogie jp2c cost 2750 USD at sweetwater. Here in Europe you pay between 4300 and 4500 USD for that at a shop as thomann. Tax included. That is +63%. It is insane but it is how it is.
 
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I have never bought from GC or Sweetwater, as I'm in the EU. But Thomann has always served me very well. And it would be nice to have options. G66 being the sole dealer of Fractal stuff in Europe is not exactly motivating them to keep prices down if you ask me. And I don't care where my product comes from, as long as I can get the best deal for me. That probably sounds harsh, but unfortunately money does not grow on trees for me, it took me a whole year to save for my XL+ so if I have to make ends meet in order to buy FAS gear I'll take it where its cheapest.
Why would FAS need to keep prices down? They can't supply enough units to meet demand (except via wait lists, etc.). Ever looked at prices being HIGHER than retail on evil-Bay or Reverb?
YOU want to get it from the cheapest source. Cool! Who doesn't want that? Don't we all??
Right now the cheapest in Europe is G66.
FAS has never (during my 10+ yr assoc. with them) bowed to customer demand(s).
I don't expect to see that change any time soon.
 
It's the same thing over and over.

A Fractal product is more expensive in the EU than in the US.

1. If you could import a Fractal product yourself then you would have to add shipping to the price.

2. Then you would have to add customs duty.

2. Then you will have to add VAT.

4. And then there is a fee for customs handling for the shipping firm.

All that will make it at least as expensive - or more - than buying from G66.
 
It's the same thing over and over.

A Fractal product is more expensive in the EU than in the US.

1. If you could import a Fractal product yourself then you would have to add shipping to the price.

2. Then you would have to add customs duty.

2. Then you will have to add VAT.

4. And then there is a fee for customs handling for the shipping firm.

All that will make it at least as expensive - or more - than buying from G66.
Exactly, already discussed ad nauseum...
It seems simple to understand but...
 
Shipping from China to the US or EU is no difference in price. I understand the VAT in the US depends on the state you're in and is lower than the european avg. Now customs duty is funny: isn't there a +25% for a lot of things coming from China to the US ?

I understand there cannot be the same price in the US and the EU but I don't get why it has to be that much higher even if I throw in 2 years of warranty EU customers get from G66. This is where competition would tell what the real price of a unit could be.
 
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