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WOW! Recabinet!!

Jay Mitchell

Fractal Fanatic
To produce my IRs, I have applied expertise in design and testing which I acquired over more than a quarter century of professional loudspeaker R&D and more than six years of physics education prior to that. I chose after serious consideration to provide these IRs to the Axe-Fx community at no charge. Given that, had I billed a customer for those services, the bill would have run to five figures, I am reluctant - understandably, I hope - to provide free engineering support to an entity that is looking to profit from the same kind of work I have performed for this community gratis.

With currently available software tools, it has become trivially easy to create a data record that appears to be a loudspeaker impulse response. Some of these "IRs" may actually sound "good" to some players. Very few, if any, of them bear substantial resemblance to a valid IR of the speaker they are purported to represent, as you would hear it while actually playing through the speaker. I have used testing techniques that are well-known to anyone with a background in acoustic testing and measurement, and the resulting IRs are faithful to the speaker/cab combinations in a way that no close-mic'ed attempt can possibly replicate. As I have stated before, I am willing to acquire IRs of user-provided speakers under the condition that I am free to share them with others. I am, however, unwilling to provide free support to someone who is selling their IRs.
 

Kazrog

New here
bmi - I am not here to debate the viability of free product vs. paid product. Both approaches can (and do) coexist peacefully in the market. And I'm not asking "how" to do anything - I'm asking about what you guys like - which is purely subjective. In other words, I'm taking an opinion poll, not asking for a tutorial. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to mic up a cabinet - only educated choices based on what is desired sonically by individuals.

Jay - I highly respect your expert opinion on this subject, as well as your generosity to the community, and I would never expect advice from you or anyone else. I certainly wasn't asking for that. I'm simply part of making a product that is custom tailored to the needs of a user base, again fielding for opinions.

The current AxeFX conversions in the Recabinet library are provided simply as a bonus, and this is clearly explained on the Recabinet website. Rest assured - we will be testing the forthcoming AxeFX-specific portion of the Recabinet library on an actual AxeFX. :cool:

All the R&D in the world will never tell you what the general public is going to think about a product. Getting something into the marketplace is the only true "test." If we weren't paying attention to feedback from users all over the internet, we would be doing our customers a disservice. It's all in the interest of making a better product.
 

Jay Mitchell

Fractal Fanatic
Kazrog said:
Jay - I highly respect your expert opinion on this subject, as well as your generosity to the community, and I would never expect advice from you or anyone else. I certainly wasn't asking for that.
I understand that. I was responding to others here who were suggesting that I offer advice.
 

m lebofsky

Veteran
Kazrog - Alot of people with Axes, including me, have been chasing an "in the room" sound that they are familiar with. The farfield IRs helped get closer to that sound. There are currently only a couple available. Perhaps you could do some R&D in that area.
 

Clawfinger

Veteran
bmi said:
You don't see what i mean??
I think that you have to applied yourself criticism before to release a product. There are a lot of IRs availbale on internet and if you need customer to know if your own sound better i find that curious.
If you need to ask customers how to put a mic before a cab or how your IR sound with the Axe Fx...idem.
It seems that you don't have an Axe FX to test them, so why did you release them?

Sorry but as you said everybody can download your demo and will make his own opinion, i have given mine. You have to provide better stuff.
Why acting so aggressive? Use them or don't use them.
 

Deltones

Veteran
AndrewSimon said:
Happy customer here, can't wait for the Vintage stuff (right up my alley)
I hear you. Although I do like to thrash around to old Exodus once in while, the vintage stuff (50's, 60's rock'n'roll) is really my desert island music.

Exciting news, if they sound good.
 

mba

Forum Addict
Clawfinger said:
bmi said:
You don't see what i mean??
I think that you have to applied yourself criticism before to release a product. There are a lot of IRs availbale on internet and if you need customer to know if your own sound better i find that curious.
If you need to ask customers how to put a mic before a cab or how your IR sound with the Axe Fx...idem.
It seems that you don't have an Axe FX to test them, so why did you release them?

Sorry but as you said everybody can download your demo and will make his own opinion, i have given mine. You have to provide better stuff.
Why acting so aggressive? Use them or don't use them.
Aggressive? How can you say that. Have you read my first post? I didn't even want to express myself, he ask me to do it so i have done. If putting a finger on some facts is to be agressiv, i'm probably. :lol:

Few weeks ago i have said that there was an issue with cabs. Few days after Cliff has released the version with 1024 IRs. I have told that the community will release better IR's just using the one existing on Internet. That's what i'm doing, just reprocessing them and uploading to axechange. They all sound better than recabinet ones.
If you want to check the quality of IR's don't do it with overdrive sound, it masks the errors, do it with clean sounds and compare.

Any samples :
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b5f5 ... 11ff7c5d0c

Just a Brownface with a cab, no mic, no drive, low gain.

Recabsample.mp3 is a recabinet cab coming from the demo.
Mesa.mp3 is one of axechange
Superchamp.mp3 idem
MesaClaw.mp3 one of yours

I am here to give my opinion and if i can advices, to look for answers. These are the goals of this forum.
I hope for the moment that nobody has spend his money for that, sorry but it's my opinion. Perhaps for the next version.
I'm doing too my own IR's and they too sound better than recab, even without an EW480. :wink:
 

Jay Mitchell

Fractal Fanatic
bmi said:
Few weeks ago i have said that there was an issue with cabs.
Which was your opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Other opinions differed from your own, BTW.

Few days after Cliff has released the version with 1024 IRs. I have told that the community will release better IR's just using the one existing on Internet. That's what i'm doing, just reprocessing them and uploading to axechange. They all sound better than recabinet ones.
In your opinion. I have listened neither to your "reprocessed" IRs nor to the Recabinet ones, so I have no opinion, nor will I be forming one.

If you want to check the quality of IR's don't do it with overdrive sound, it masks the errors,
You've made this statement before, as if others here do not play clean sounds. Personally, I play clean (really clean, not "crunch" or "granular" clean) and dry far more than any other way. And I have the original speakers from which I acquired my IRs to use as a reference. How 'bout you?

I am here to give my opinion and if i can advices, to look for answers.
I believe the first two statements. It appears to me that, as opposed to seeking answers, you believe you already know them. In my personal opinion, you're not even close.....
 

mba

Forum Addict
To seek and to look for are not synonym? Because they are in my dictionnary. Just want to say that i have already find answers here to my questions.

My opinion was that cabs are really an important part of the sound. It seems that a lot of people are happy with the 1024 feature, so there is perhaps a relation.

For me a good IR deliver a good sound in clean and overdrive sound.
As i said i do my own IRs too so i have the original speakers near to me. Some IRs sound like cardboard as we used to say in french in clean action(not sure it means something in english). You can't notice that with overdrive but it becomes an evidence in clean. If your cab produce the same sound and you think it's normal, try to change your cables and connectors.
A cab could sound warm, round but never muted or "like cardboard".
It's my opinion, not sure i express it in the right way.
 

Jay Mitchell

Fractal Fanatic
bmi said:
For me a good IR deliver a good sound in clean and overdrive sound.
Here is what you are completely failing to grasp: your concept of "good" is just one opinion. It is no more valid than the opinions of others. To present an opinion as fact is to create the strong impression of insufferable arrogance. I have gotten that impression from you on multiple occasions, and I'm not alone in that.

As i said i do my own IRs too so i have the original speakers near to me.
You said that your IRs are reprocessed: "I have told that the community will release better IR's just using the one existing on Internet. That's what i'm doing, just reprocessing them and uploading to axechange." So which is it? Are they reprocessed, or did you acquire them yourself?

Some IRs sound like cardboard
How, precisely, would you say cardboard sounds, then? How would one go about listening to cardboard so as to know how it sounds?

FYI, speaker cones are manufactured of "cardboard" in the form of felted paper. Is it your sincere belief that a device made of cardboard can possibly sound like anything other than cardboard? :lol:
 

mba

Forum Addict
Read again my comment and you clearly will understand that i do both, reprocessing the internet's IR for axechange as my participation to the communauty and recording my own for me.

When i take the precaution to mention "For me..." before telling something i'm wondering how you can take it for arrogance, because if it's "for me" that's not for everybody.

The "carboard sound" is a french expression, follow the link and download the Recabsample.mp3 file, it sounds almost like "cardboard".(knock with your finger on a cardboard...)
 

GuitarDojo

Moderator
Moderator
bmi said:
Read again my comment and you clearly will understand that i do both, reprocessing the internet's IR for axechange as my participation to the communauty and recording my own for me.

When i take the precaution to mention "For me..." before telling something i'm wondering how you can take it for arrogance, because if it's "for me" that's not for everybody.

The "carboard sound" is a french expression, follow the link and download the Recabsample.mp3 file, it sounds almost like "cardboard".(knock with your finger on a cardboard...)
To me.. The Recab example sounded the best.
 

mba

Forum Addict
To me it doesn't sound clear, as a vibroverb (brownface model) should in my cab. So it's a matter of taste.

A vibroverb :
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=3YJdSX15qy8

Don't forget that there is no mic, no drive for the speaker and i just check that the sag was to zero.
If i increase one of this parameter you know what's happend.
I can provide the preset if you want to test it.
 

Kazrog

New here
bmi - given your preferences in amps, you probably will be happier with Recabinet Vintage, coming in 2009. You can't expect a 4x12 to sound like a vintage combo. :)

UPDATE: I finally checked out your mp3s, and I actually liked all the tones for different reasons. I think the Recabinet version is very muddy sounding, probably not the ideal preamp EQ settings for that impulse, but not really "cardboard" - if anything it's most bass heavy clean sound I've heard in a while, interesting in its own way and potentially great with brighter settings on the preamp EQ. Download the new 1.05 demo and post some clips once you try it - I'm sure you'll find your tones with it will be brighter and warmer.

In any case, Recabinet Vintage will be the product for the type of tone you're going for in that clip. Sure, you can get great clean sounds out of a 4x12, but your preference in sounds is clearly more oriented around classic combos, which is the focus of Recabinet Vintage. Thanks again for your feedback.
 

Kazrog

New here
EDITED: The Recabinet 1.05 update is out now! Those of you who felt it sounded dark, distant, disappointing, etc. will be very pleased, as we've solved the problem and made the library sound much brighter, fuller, and more dynamic as a whole. Use these links:


Thanks again for all your input, it's helped us continue to improve Recabinet!
 

GuitarDojo

Moderator
Moderator
Kazrog said:
The Recabinet 1.04 update is out now! Those of you who felt it sounded dark, distant, disappointing, etc. will be very pleased, as we've solved the problem and made the library sound much brighter, fuller, and more dynamic as a whole. Use these links:


Thanks again for all your input, it's helped us continue to improve Recabinet!
Thanks for the early Christmas present! I saw the email at 4 am this morning! Your up early!
 

Kazrog

New here
IMPORTANT: There's already a 1.05 update now, it's a critical bug fix release, as there were some strange file-level and impulse-level problems with 1.04. Same download locations as before. Just make sure you delete 1.04, whether it's the demo or the full version, there are problems with both. This will be the last Recabinet update of 2008, it's 100% bug free and we're very happy with it!

We're conducting early R&D with the "far field" technique, and the results will be incorporated in an update in 2009 as part of the launch of specific AxeFX support. AxeFX support will come in the form of a free update to Recabinet, and it will be present in the forthcoming Recabinet Vintage as well.

More details about the 2009 roadmap for Recabinet will be announced soon. Thanks!
 

knoll

Inspired
I'm interested in this now since farfields are on the roadmap. Hopefully you can capture as good impulses as Jay's farfields are.

If I remember correctly Jay mentioned that he used some ground plane measurement technique for capturing his IRs. So if you capture a 2x12" cab, the IR essentially represents a 4x12" cab because the signal from the two speakers reflects from the floor. So you get direct signal and first reflection. Think that your eyes are where the mic is and place a mirror on the floor to the reflection spot.. you'll see 4 speakers.
 

rsf1977

Fractal Fanatic
[quote:29bvw07q]Some IRs sound like cardboard
FYI, speaker cones are manufactured of "cardboard" in the form of felted paper. Is it your sincere belief that a device made of cardboard can possibly sound like anything other than cardboard? :lol:
[/quote:29bvw07q]


hahahah i have to say a pretty clever retort lol :lol:
 
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