Wow! Never seen so much Whining and Crying. Lets get a grip on this!

Is Fractal that stupid and shady that they would lie in an email? I really hope not, and would hate to see that speculation get repeated. All I've seen is a post from Cliff saying someone was threatening to sue him, and until I see Cliff say more than that I'm gonna assume it's just some douche being a douche.
 
Good post Scott...well thought out. It seems you have the middle road approach which I hope most can come to.

And I agree on some kind of warning next time. The way you posted give those who will be purchasing an axe fx the opportunity to wait for somthing possibly better or go ahead and buy now.

But at LEAST it gives them a choice!
 
I'm one of the guys who did email asking if they're maybe a new product update etc coming. I sent the email on Feb 25/2011, after a couple weeks I bought it. Had I not asked before I bought, I would have NO problem with my purchase...I still don't have a problem, I enjoy my Ultra! I'm just upset that I was not given an honest response.
 
Is threating to sue going overboard? In most cases i would agree, but if people have been told very recently by email asking if there was anything coming out to replace current product and being told no then maybe they do have a case.

For the record i'm not one of them just saying there maybe a case for some people.

Mark

Well FIRST they would have to provide the actual email as proof. Maybe THIS was what I read about in my previous post. By the way it would be interesting to post this for all to see.

If they can do that, then it is up to the lawyer to decide weather or not to go after it as a case, but I still think it is making a mountian out of a molehill!

In the first place.... WHAT are they going to be suing for exactly? That they were not told a new unit was coming out? That is not grounds for legal prosecution as far as I can tell. If it were, a lot of companies would be in trouble.

That they were deliberately lied to? That would be an even harder case to prove even IF they had the email you mention and STILL not illegal as far as I know.....frustrating maybe... but illegal? No.

And then how would you prove "damages"? It is not like Cliff came and hit you with his car and you are in a wheelchair or anything. He simply made a new product and was a bit secretive about it. Nothing illegal there as far as I know, though I am not a lawyer. Would you say that being without a guitar pre-amp caused you harm? That does not even make sense unless you try to tell the judge you had a bad case of GAS , to which he would probably not understand what you were talking about and would say you need a doctor not a lawyer!

Again suing Cliff to me IS going insane, overboard, the persons elevator does not stop on every floor...you name it how you want.
But what I am saying is that suing over a guitar pre-amp unless it blew up in your face and caused you physical damage, is probably a dead case from the start. As I said....being dissapointed is one thing ...taking legal action is completely another.

I'm one of the guys who did email asking if they're maybe a new product update etc coming. I sent the email on Feb 25/2011, after a couple weeks I bought it. Had I not asked before I bought, I would have NO problem with my purchase...I still don't have a problem, I enjoy my Ultra! I'm just upset that I was not given an honest response.

This was in my earlier posting where I read about you or someone else asking about a new unit. Could you post the email without any personal information? I would like to see for myself what you were told.

Is Fractal that stupid and shady that they would lie in an email? I really hope not, and would hate to see that speculation get repeated. All I've seen is a post from Cliff saying someone was threatening to sue him, and until I see Cliff say more than that I'm gonna assume it's just some douche being a douche.

This is WHY I asked the person that posted they received one of these emails to post it for all to see....it would put to bed a lot of questions and rumors about what it was and what it was not. But lets not start calling people liars until they have had a chance to explain themselves!
 
Last edited:
Wow Scott, calling someone a douche that you don't even know.

webe123, yes they would have to produce the email to prove it. But aside from that i do remember an official post that was not too long ago that did say there was no successor to the ultra in the near future, or words to that effect. Can't search for the post of course.

I love my ultra and i think Cliff is a genius in what he has created but this whole thing does leave a bad taste in my mouth of how its been handled.

Flame me if you want.

Mark
 
Mark,

I find people who rush to sue other people to be quite gross. Threatening people is also pretty gross. I find all that to be the behavior of a douche. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities!

If someone asked about a new model and was lied to in an email by Fractal, I think that the proper course of action is to get the word out about that and let the actions of the company affect their reputation and let them damn themselves. But jumping right to threatening to sue, that's the behavior of a douche. I've known people like that, "if I don't get what I want you're going to hear from my lawyer"-- whether it's an empty threat or dead serious, either way I find that mentality reprehensible. Just my opinion.
 
Here's the post and a link to the thread.

Firewire is on the way out. If we were to come out with a new version it would probably have USB.

No new version in the works though. Working on some other projects.

I agree with the perspective provided by Sasha, Solo-act, and others. I've also posted some comments bringing a perspective to the great work FAS has done and the challenges they must have faced here.

It's also evident that this announcement caught a great many people by surprise. More than I would have expected. I think I felt like this forum kept us all very much in the know and was completely blind sided by the announcement. But as I've stated in another post, this is more about me, not FAS.

I have to believe that the above post was true at the time but something changed in the ensuing 8 months. It'd be great to get the real story there.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-general-discussion/28895-should-i-buy-axe-fx-ultra.html
 
Guys I bought the Ultra about six months ago and am a little bummed also, I would have held out for the Axe II...... But Fractal didn't do anything wrong, I don't quite like the way the release came about but its an awesome release just the same.
I guess thats why people feel the way they do because we all know it was awesome and we just missed it. And its human nature to not like change so well, even when we know it will only bring good things to the future. If you want to feel better about all of this just go to the recordings forum or youtube and check out all the awesome music that is being made with what we have.
and every single person here including Cliff have one great thing in common....... WE love music and thats what its all about. I want an Axe II also but I promise...... pouring all this time and energy into our music will improve our art far more than a new Axe would.
And as far as our equipment losing value, it wasn't the hardware that got me anyway it was the magic code that runs around inside the hardware and this would have never happened had Cliff not poured his heart and hard work into it. Lets please get refocused on the music, its the bottom line of whats its about anyway.......
 
Here's the post and a link to the thread.



I agree with the perspective provided by Sasha, Solo-act, and others. I've also posted some comments bringing a perspective to the great work FAS has done and the challenges they must have faced here.

It's also evident that this announcement caught a great many people by surprise. More than I would have expected. I think I felt like this forum kept us all very much in the know and was completely blind sided by the announcement. But as I've stated in another post, this is more about me, not FAS.

I have to believe that the above post was true at the time but something changed in the ensuing 8 months. It'd be great to get the real story there.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-general-discussion/28895-should-i-buy-axe-fx-ultra.html

Well it seems that the people who claimed they read something about there NOT being a new version were correct. There was a post by Cliff. Now, the question is.....did he have the axe fx II in mind or start work on it 8 months ago?
 
8 months? Psshhh! If that was two or three months ago that would be something. But 8 months is a long time ago. I have no problem believing that was fully true when Cliff said it. Probably the idea had been kicked around and all, but there weren't any concrete plans. Totally plausible. If that post was two or three months ago, that would tell a very different tale.
 
Scott,

I agree people who rush to sue are gross. For the record i have been living in the states for 10 years, from england originally where sueing for everything just does not happen. It does amaze me what goes on in this country with regards to sueing for things.

Regardless if a company has lied and there is proof then i think there are grounds to sue, that's up to the people involved.

That's all i am saying.

Mark
 
8 months? Psshhh! If that was two or three months ago that would be something. But 8 months is a long time ago. I have no problem believing that was fully true when Cliff said it. Probably the idea had been kicked around and all, but there weren't any concrete plans. Totally plausible. If that post was two or three months ago, that would tell a very different tale.

But we have not heard from the person I asked to post the email if they still have it.

But either way, weather he knew or not, it is STILL crazy to sue him over a guitar pre amp. There is nothing to be gained.

Oh and this DOES confirm that people were told a new axe was not on its way, it was NOT a fairytale it WAS NOT a figment of their imagination! So let's put that to rest now.

But how long ago did he have to start on the new one to make it from the ground up? Which is what he has done. I would imagine he has been working on this a considerable amount of time. 8 months or more should not be out of the question. And he DID mention anything they made having USB in the post. Gather from that what you will.

But I still think suing him is a dumb idea. It has no damages to speak of and no one was harmed...the only thing I can see as being harmed is some peoples trust now because of the way it was handled.

But I think this will all blow over soon and we will be talking about the new axe fx II. At least I hope so.
 
Last edited:
I think you're right Scott. A comment by another member in the thread even references the enormous processing power needed to run a new class of simulations being years away. I think Cliff hit some kind of breakthrough between then and now that reduced years away to months away. I don't think Cliff was being deceptive here. I hesitated posting that and furthering this but admit that I was curious about that breakthrough and the actual context myself. Anyway...kind of wish now that I hadn't.
 
Last edited:
Well I think it was a lot longer the 8 months. The first sentence regarding Gen 2 Axe says after 3 years of R&D. That tells me the Cliff was on to something long before he let on.
 
That's what i read also Sixstring. So even 8 months ago saying nothing on the horizon was not strictly true.

Mark
 
Here's the post and a link to the thread.



I agree with the perspective provided by Sasha, Solo-act, and others. I've also posted some comments bringing a perspective to the great work FAS has done and the challenges they must have faced here.

It's also evident that this announcement caught a great many people by surprise. More than I would have expected. I think I felt like this forum kept us all very much in the know and was completely blind sided by the announcement. But as I've stated in another post, this is more about me, not FAS.

I have to believe that the above post was true at the time but something changed in the ensuing 8 months. It'd be great to get the real story there.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-general-discussion/28895-should-i-buy-axe-fx-ultra.html

I think you're right Scott. A comment by another member in the thread even references the enormous processing power needed to run a new class of simulations. I think Cliff hit some kind of breakthrough between then and now that reduced years away to months away. I don't think Cliff was being deceptive here. I hesitated posting that and furthering this but admit that I was curious about that breakthrough and the actual context myself. Anyway...kind of wish now that I hadn't.

I do not think you did anything wrong at all. You simply posted what was there.

And it DOES justify the people who were saying there WAS a thread where they were told no new axe was coming. I could not find it or I would have posted it.

It really does not change anything other than to solidify that people being accused of lying, were not lying at all.

This does not make Cliff a monster, it simply confirmed that some were told a new product was not coming out 8 months ago. Now weather or not the development for the axe fx II was already in full swing when that was posted is another question.

But it still is not grounds for a lawsuit as far as I know in my limited legal knowledge. That is just crazy.
 
Last edited:
That's what i read also Sixstring. So even 8 months ago saying nothing on the horizon was not strictly true.

Mark

Well, it kind of depends on how you define "horizon". It's not a stretch to imagine that Cliff had ideas about more complex models even before he released the Ultra and has been working on how to manage those larger models from the beginning. It's also possible that he arrived upon the solution after having made that comment. When he made it, his "horizon" could have been defined as "when a processor with exponentially more power is available at a reasonable cost", and that none was available at the time. It's also possible that while he had probably considered a dual processor solution, he had repeatedly discounted it due to limitations we don't know about and that he came upon a method to overcome those limitations after having made that comment. There is much we don't know.
 
Last edited:
Well I think it was a lot longer the 8 months. The first sentence regarding Gen 2 Axe says after 3 years of R&D. That tells me the Cliff was on to something long before he let on.

Three years of R&D basically means all of the work he was doing on the Axe firmware. Surely along the way he came up with a number of ideas and techniques that had to be shelved because they weren't possible on the hardware at the time. And he was hardly going to say a year ago, "I've been working on something new and it'll come out a year from now so save your money."

Anyone getting angry about a comment made eight months ago really needs to get a grip on reality. If someone can produce an email they got within the past month or so, they might have a legitimate beef, but eight months is a long time when it comes to product development.
 
Well, it kind of depends on how you define "horizon". It's not a stretch to imagine that Cliff had ideas about more complex models even before he released the Ultra and has been working on how to manage those larger models from the beginning. It's also possible that he arrived upon the solution after having made that comment. When he made it, his "horizon" could have been defined as "when a processor with exponentially more power is available at a reasonable cost", and that none was available at the time. It's also possible that while he had probably considered a dual processor solution, he had repeatedly discounted it due to limitations we don't know about and that he came upon a method to overcome those limitations after having made that comment. There is much we don't know.


The problem with THAT theory, is that there are others claiming they had emails sent to them stating as little as 3 months ago that there was NO new axe fx. I asked one of them to post the main body of the email and omit his personal information. we'll see if he even has it, but on another post he did give a date of three months ago.

But even at 8 months, I find it hard to believe that Cliff just THEN statrted to work on something this huge and finished it in 6 to 8 months as some guess. You have to remember this is a TOTALLY NEW AXE FX! It has two tiger sharc processors along with a new motherboard, effects, amps, headphone jack, USB connectivity.....it just seems hard to believe he started 8 months ago and just now finished with it. It would seem to take a LOT longer than that. And the webpage states it was 3 YEARS in the development. Only Cliff can sort this out.
 
Last edited:
Probably these points have been made already (some by me), but perhaps they bear repeating. Caveat: these are my opinions.
1. Don't argue logic when someone is having an emotional response. Given a little space people will probably come to terms with this stuff, but if you insist on engaging in endless arguments, well this forum will start to resemble too many others.
2. I took the trouble to do an exhaustive search for one popular 'quote.' I know the origin, and saw how it got twisted to mean something entirely different. At least some of what people thought they knew was just plain wrong.
3. Newbies don't know who is who on a forum. I was one just a few months ago, and when I, like many others, asked about the prospect for a new model coming out soon... I got what appeared to be an informed answer. It wasn't. See #2.
4. If you're too young to remember, look up what happened to the Osborne Computer company.
5. By all appearances FAS is a small company that is not exactly taking excessive profits. In such a situation there isn't a lot of room to let the cash flow dry up for months prior to announcing a new product. See #4.
6. Anybody who thinks they have a legitimate grievance should contact Cliff and see what can be worked out privately. FAS is not exactly a faceless corporate behemoth.

This is one of those posts that I write out just to test my thought process, and then never submit. Whoops. ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom