Bug / Partially Solved: Tap Tempo based on when you release, not when you press

giantslayer

Experienced
Tap Tempo with the FC is based on when you release the switch, not when you press it (which is the part people are naturally trying to tap). This behavior is the same whether there is a hold function on the switch or not.

Wish: Either an option or automatic behavior (when there is no hold function) for tap tempo to use the button press timing instead of release for tap tempo.


[Final Edit:]
Because I was using Footswitch #6 (bottom right), the MLM (Master Layout Menu) function messed things up a bit.
Final results of my testing:
MLM Enabled, other hold function enabled: Tap uses release timing.
MLM Enabled, no hold function: Tap uses release timing.
MLM Disabled, other hold function enabled: Tap uses release timing.
MLM Disabled, no hold function: Tap uses press timing.

On the one hand, I now have a properly working tap tempo so I could say this is solved. On the other hand, it's still not behaving as the manual describes, which would warrant either an update to the tap function or an update to the manual.
 
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This ↑. It does register on press.

Don't forget there's two different modes for Tap Tempo in the Global Settings menu: Average or Last Two.

From the manual:

Determines how the tempo changes when tapping the front panel TEMPO
button or an external tap tempo controller (see p. 76). “AVERAGE” sets the
tempo based on the average of ten taps, meaning taps are more forgiving
but changes are more gradual. “LAST TWO” considers only the time interval
between the last two taps, which means taps must be more precise but
changes occur more quickly.

I personally prefer the Last Two mode.
 
I've got mine set on Last Two and it is definitely based on the release, not the press. Here's my testing method:
1. Press down for a half second, then release and quickly press again. I get 250 BPM. Two regular presses with the same timing gets me about 80.
2. Two quick presses but hold the second one half a second. I get about 80 bpm there. If I don't hold the second one, I have 250.

I've tested it both with and without a hold function.
 
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You can't hold the switch longer than the hold timeout setting, or the function of the switch changes accordingly.

Just tap normally without holding and the new tempo will line up with your presses exactly.
 
I've got mine set on Last Two and it is definitely based on the release, not the press. Here's my testing method:
1. Press down for a half second, then release and quickly press again. I get 250 BPM. Two regular presses with the same timing gets me about 80.
2. Two quick presses but hold the second one half a second. I get about 80 bpm there. If I don't hold the second one, I have 250.

I've tested it both with and without a hold function.

You know what. After doing some further testing, you might be right.

I set my hold timeout to 2 seconds as to not jack with the results. I rhythmically push then release the switch in an 8th note pattern like down, up, down, up,... at about 100 bpm. When I stop, the tempo is roughly 100 bpm but is aligned with the up, not the down, i.e. the release not the press.

FW 16.02 and 1.11 here.
 
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You know what. After doing some further testing, you might be right.

I set my hold timeout to 2 seconds as to not jack with the results. I rhythmically push then release the switch in an 8th note pattern like down, up, down, up,... at about 100 bpm. When I stop, the tempo is roughly 100 bpm but is aligned with the up, not the down, i.e. the release not the press.
Help me understand. Tempo isn't aligned to anything. It's just a time value.
 
Help me understand. Tempo isn't aligned to anything. It's just a time value.

Sure it is. It's aligned to the down beat of the song. When you tap in a tempo, you want it in sync with the beat of the song not just in beat length, but also aligned with the down beat of the song. Otherwise some of your effects like a choppy tremolo for example can end up syncopated to the beat instead of landing on the beat. In other cases, like a looping delay line, that alignment doesn't really matter as much as long as the beat length is correct.
 
Sure it is. It's aligned to the down beat of the song. When you tap in a tempo, you want it in sync with the beat of the song not just in beat length, but also aligned with the down beat of the song. Otherwise some of your effects like a choppy tremolo for example can end up syncopated to the beat instead of landing on the beat. In other cases, like a looping delay line, that alignment doesn't really matter as much as long as the beat length is correct.
The Axe-FX doesn't perform any of the alignment mentioned here. It doesn't align the tempo LED to your tapping, or effect LFOs to the tempo LED.

To determine whether down or up is being interpreted as a tap, watch the main Axe/FM display. The updated tempo will pop up IIRC, or you can view the tempo menu.
 
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True it could be a discrepancy with the display of the tempo on the FC end. The FC's switch buttons are quite sensitive, so when tapping quickly and normally, I've never noticed any discrepancy before. I just kind of bounce the switch with my foot. It does appear that the release of the switch is somehow affecting the end tempo result though. Given what is says in the manual, I assumed that meant it completely ignored the release part of the movement. That doesn't completely appear to be the case though.
 
I'm not referring to display sync. The Axe-FX tempo LED's alignment to your tapping will also be random. I meant watch the main screen of the Axe-FX and note whether it's updating the tempo value on switch press or release.
 
Sure it is. It's aligned to the down beat of the song. When you tap in a tempo, you want it in sync with the beat of the song not just in beat length, but also aligned with the down beat of the song. Otherwise some of your effects like a choppy tremolo for example can end up syncopated to the beat instead of landing on the beat. In other cases, like a looping delay line, that alignment doesn't really matter as much as long as the beat length is correct.
Tapping only sets the tempo value. It does not align the beat, sometimes called "beat sync". Similarly, no FAS product has ever supported SPP. That would be a nice feature though :).
 
Looks like main display is updating on release as well.

You're correct about the alignment though. Front panel LED is not aligned with tap press or release thought it is on the FC end. I guess that's where my assumption is incorrect. I though it realigned the LFOs and such to the downbeat on tempo change in beat sync fashion like GlennO said.

I'm still a little puzzled by the update on release though.
 
I'm still a little puzzled by the update on release though.
That’s how the FC registers everything else. It doesn’t know if you are going to hold it down for a hold function, so it activates when you release the switch. That doesn’t work well for tap tempo, however. As Unix_Guy pointed out, the FC is supposed to apply a different behavior for tap tempo, but my tests are clearly demonstrating it is not doing that.
 
Yeah I know that's how it's supposed to work for switches with a hold function assigned, but tap tempo is supposed to be the exception.
 
Tap tempo is always based on the down of the switch. If there is a hold function assigned to the switch, the tempo won't update on the Axe-Fx III until the switch is released. In this case, the time will still be calculated based on when the switch went down.
 
Tap tempo is always based on the down of the switch. If there is a hold function assigned to the switch, the tempo won't update on the Axe-Fx III until the switch is released. In this case, the time will still be calculated based on when the switch went down.
Supposed to, but it’s not. Try the tests I outlined earlier in the thread. Using the same tap timing but varying how long I held before releasing produced drastically different tempos.
 
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