Wireless routers for Digital Mixers

Keg8605

Power User
Looking for a new wireless router to use with our X32 in-ear system. What do you all recommend? I've seen the Thomann stage router which is kind of pricey but rack mountable. I've also read about getting the antennas out of the rack tho. Our current router is 5 years old and lately there's been a bit of lag going on.
 
I have an ASUS dual band. Offhand I don't remember the model number, but I got it at Best Buy, and looking at the website, it looks like the RT-AC1750. Sorry haha I know that isn't much help.

It's not rack mountable, but I imagine it would fit on a blank rack space. The antennas would be a problem, though. We don't have a rack, so the router just sits on a stool or chair out of view.

As far as reliability though, it's great. It worked so well for the band that I bought one for home. It has been running continuously 24/7 for about 11 months now, and it has been solid.
 
I use an Apple Extreme 4th gen I think. $30 bucks on eBay. Works excellent with my x32. Velcro to rack shelf.
If you're having a lag with your current router.....if it's only 2.4g....then you need a new router.
If it's dual band, the try shutting off the 2.4g and only have the 5g on. This may prevent cell phone traffic from messing with your connection.
 
I have an ASUS model of some sort... It was cheap and small (straps to the top of the DL32R as intended). Have not had any problems in a year of using it.
 
The only thing I would recommend is getting one that works in the 5ghz range as well as 2.4, which is most of them these days. This allows you to keep 2.4 a little clearer for any wireless systems that use that frequency.

Honestly, any decent router will work great.
 
Yea our current one is netgear dual band and even in the 5ghz range we were having some serious lag. I'm leaning towards giving the airport extreme a go as it seems the most user friendly since we all have apple devices anyhow. After reading through a bunch of threads on pro sound forums lots of people are using the Ubiquiti products with a router, WAP and even antenna extenders for longer range. Seems a more tech savy route and we shouldn't need a huge amount of range. Mainly just stage and 50-100 feet in front if ever.... Plus I like the idea of having airplay accessible for some background wireless audio.
 
I'm using an ASUS RT-N66U without any problems on the 5ghz band. I was having major interference issues with Line 6 wireless units and the 2.4ghz band regardless of the RF1 or RF2 mode setting in the Line 6 transmitters. I ended up turning off the 2.4ghz radio in the router and haven't had any problems since.
 
Definitely get a dual band.
You don't need to shut off the 2.4 band, as there are things you can do to minimize interference in that band.
FWIW - been using the Archer C7 - with a mod'ed GC generic tablet mount on top of a mic stand, for over a year on BOTH bands as some band members had device that could not use 5 Ghz band. Here's a long blurb I posted on another forum earlier this year.
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SSID - is the name you assign to your router (which runs your "local" network) and the router broadcasts that "access point" name. Go to networks on your cell phone or iDevice/Android and look at the list of available wireless network. THOSE are SSID's being broadcast.

Wireless security has a variety of types - WEP, WPA, WPA2, WPA Enterprise - to name a few, listed in order of "strength", weak to strong. Not all routers support all types, but most will handle WEP, WPA and WPA2.

For a "band" router, security is more about preventing accidental access, as it's unlikely that anyone is trying to hack your network - you have NO internet access! However, in the unlikely event of that happening, you want it to be secure.

WPA2 (I use) is a 128-bit encrypted key that is stored on the router. You enter your own key value in the router wireless security admin screen (in text format). The user enters the same text when connecting to the network which is then encrypted and matched against the routers.

I recommend a dual-band router (2.4Ghz and 5Ghz) and using the 5Ghz band ONLY as the "digital" domain (2.4Ghz, channels 1-12) is cluttered by wireless units on stage (Line6, Seen, Shure, etc) AND all the cell phones in the venue with wireless turned on.

Basically, if you take you router off the 19.168.1.* range, you won't get pinged if your SSID is not being broadcast. In addition, making the 3rd node of your networks IP something other than "1" (between 2 and 255) obfuscates the router and your network.

The following example applies to any number you pick as the 3rd node.

PART 1:
You want your router out of the standard clutter.. So set the 3rd node (192.168.3rd_node.*) to something other than the standard value of 1. You can pick from 2 thru 255. Let's use 37 as an example
Your router IP would be 192.168.37.1, so set that in the config screen. Set the router up as DHCP and set the DHCP starting node to be non-standard - something like 102, or 155, or even 200.
That will give you (255 - n) dynamic IP's available from the starting point eg: 192.168.37.102 -->> 193.168.37.255
You are NOT going to have 60 devices connecting, so you could go as high as starting at 192.168.37.220.
Set your mixer to have a static IP like 192.168.37.55. Make sure it is outside the DHCP range. You don't want an IP conflict with DHCP assigned IP's.
Give the router a simple SSID, you CAN turn off SSID broadcast, but we don't.
Turn on WPA2 wireless security. Again.. keep the connection string (password) relatively simple and easy to remember as it's highly UNLIKELY anyone will be trying to hack your network during a gig.
Following this approach should keep any interference at a minimum.

PART 2: Get a tool like "Wifi Analyzer". Before each gig, run it. It will display a graph of all networks it finds (see pic below) and the channels they are using in both 2.4 and 5Ghz bands.
If your router's 2.4Ghz chosen channel (1-12) is cluttered with other access points, login as admin and change your channel to the least busy shown by the app. Channels 1, 6 and 11 do NOT overlap, so those are good starting points. IIRC - channel 1 or 6 tends to be the default 2.4 channel on many routers. Note that channels 13 and 14 are NOT active in the US, but part of the 24Ghz spectrum.
Do the same for the 5Ghz channels. None of them overlap so that's not an issue.
Should be all set.

NOTE:
If you want to learn more about channels, etc.. Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels
In the 5 Ghz spectrum, not all channels are available all the time. Some are Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS). If DFS is on - and your router supports it - your router will listen for radar or 1st Responders using those shared frequencies and not use those channels. I believe the

non DFS channels are: 36, 40, 44, 48, 149, 153, 157, 161.

upload_2017-10-4_15-54-33.png


FWIW - Our router is the highly rated TPLink Archer C7.. $85 (?)
You don't need anywhere near all the features found on most home routers these days (QOS, Internet connections, USB, port forwarding, IP/MAC binding, IPV6, DDNS, parental controls, etc.) for band use. Your router is functioning as a wireless access point (WAP) to allow you to get to your mixer and control IEM and FOH mixes, not really as a router. So don't go out and buy the TOTL router, like a new Netgear Nighthawk!! Serious OVERKILL!!
 
Lots of good info, @s0c9 . But I recommend turning off SSID broadcast. Since there's no Internet access (unless someone in the band has misconfigured their phone), this cuts your attack surface back.
 
Thanks for all the info @s0c9! We picked up an airport extreme used and my brother set it up (he has the rack) last night using your notes. Will be interesting to see how it performs. We also ordered a dock for it and plan to place on top of our in-ear rack when using so the range is better.
 
You don't need to shut off the 2.4 band, as there are things you can do to minimize interference in that band.
I tried many things to get the 2.4 band to play 'nice' with my Line 6 gear (two XV-70's and an XV-75). My network is on 192.168.33.x, I tried different channels (According to Line 6 there is no correlation between Wifi channels and Line 6 channels) on both the router and wireless units. I used the wifi analyzer to search for open signals. In every case I could watch the rf meter on the Line 6 receiver bounce in & out. As soon as I shut off the 2.4 radio on the router the signal on the receivers remained solid on. I'm not saying the 2.4 radio must be turned off, however if dropouts are encountered this would be the first thing I'd check.

Also- I'm running wireless DMX that operates in the 2.4 band. Having the 2.4 radio on in the router doesn't seem to affect DMX wireless. It's just the Line 6 stuff I have trouble with.
 
I tried many things to get the 2.4 band to play 'nice' with my Line 6 gear (two XV-70's and an XV-75). My network is on 192.168.33.x, I tried different channels (According to Line 6 there is no correlation between Wifi channels and Line 6 channels) on both the router and wireless units. I used the wifi analyzer to search for open signals. In every case I could watch the rf meter on the Line 6 receiver bounce in & out. As soon as I shut off the 2.4 radio on the router the signal on the receivers remained solid on. I'm not saying the 2.4 radio must be turned off, however if dropouts are encountered this would be the first thing I'd check.

Also- I'm running wireless DMX that operates in the 2.4 band. Having the 2.4 radio on in the router doesn't seem to affect DMX wireless. It's just the Line 6 stuff I have trouble with.
AFAIK, the L6 stuff runs in the 2.4 band, and I assume you meant the XD-V70..?? On my old G90, there were 12 channels.. each of which corresponded to 12 of the 2.4 channels available. There are actually 14 in the spectrum, but 12 - 14 are not open for use in the USA. So if you are being told that by L6 I'd have to call BS, but it might be due to RF1 and RF2 formats?
Their doc state that they use the 2.4Ghz (license free ISM bands) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
That lies between 2.4 and 2.5Ghz.. and has 14 channels worldwide. You might need to do a firmware check and upgrade it?

Here's a blurb from the XD OM..
"The XD-V75 utilizes our latest digital wireless transmission method, and is fully channel compatible with the XD-V35, as well as Relay™ G30, Relay™ G50, and Relay™ G90 models that have Version 2 software running RF2 mode. Multiple units of any of these models can be mixed used within the same location as long as each is on a unique channel and no more than 14 are used simultaneously.

The XD-V75 receiver can also automatically receive transmissions from the previous generation of Line 6 wireless products, which include the XD-V30, XD-V70, and Relay™ G30, Relay™ G50, and Relay™ G90 models with Version software, now referred to as RF1 mode. However, it is not recommended to mix usage of the RF1 and RF2 modes within the same location due to the channel frequencies in each system not being compatible.

If an XD-V75 unit is being added to a setup that already includes any devices running in RF1 mode, the XD-V75 can be used to update the older devices to run RF2 mode by using an internet-connected computer attached to the XD-V75’s USB port. See the Firmware Updating Procedure section for more information. Alternatively, the XD-V75 transmitters can be setup to operate in RF1 mode if it is necessary to use the transmitters with older Line 6 receivers. To set the THH12 or TBP12 transmitters into the RF1 mode, enter Setup mode to display the current channel, then while holding down the SELECT button press and release the ON/MUTE button on the THH12 or VALUE button on the TBP12. The display will briefly show [XD-V75 RF1] or [XD-V75 RF2] to indicate whether it is operating in the old or new mode, respectively. This setting is retained when powering off, so as a reminder the display will also show this indication [RF1 or RF2] each time power is turned on. The XD-V75 receiver will display a [To] on the far right of the display to indicate while communicating with a RF1 software transmitter.
"
 
Thanks for all the info @s0c9! We picked up an airport extreme used and my brother set it up (he has the rack) last night using your notes. Will be interesting to see how it performs. We also ordered a dock for it and plan to place on top of our in-ear rack when using so the range is better.
cool.. let me know how it works out.. I can always tweak my notes :)
 
Lots of good info, @s0c9 . But I recommend turning off SSID broadcast. Since there's no Internet access (unless someone in the band has misconfigured their phone), this cuts your attack surface back.
Yes, it does.. I initially did this, but for folks on tablets or using phones (iOS or Android) I quickly found out that these devices will "forget" the link between gigs and do not AUTO connect to the router, so I was continually getting band members asking for the network name so they could run their IEM mixes. So I "re-enabled" the SSID broadcast.
YMMV
 
AFAIK, the L6 stuff runs in the 2.4 band, and I assume you meant the XD-V70..?? On my old G90, there were 12 channels.. each of which corresponded to 12 of the 2.4 channels available. There are actually 14 in the spectrum, but 13 + 14 are not open for use in the USA. So if you are being told that by L6 I'd have to call BS, but it might be due to RF1 and RF2 formats?
Their doc state that they use the 2.4Ghz (license free ISM bands) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
That lies between 2.4 and 2.5Ghz.. and has 14 channels worldwide. You might need to do a firmware check and upgrade it?

Yes- I meant the XD-V70 & XD-V75. All my units have the latest firmware. In fact, the only reason I picked up the V75 was to update my six V70's. Based on the L6 documentation, I believe there is no correlation between their frequencies and the router frequencies. The L6 uses multiple frequencies per channel to ensure dropouts do not occur... however, I know dropouts do happen (and happen often) in the real world:

L6 info from HERE:
ccs-1582879-0-34059900-1378335127.png


Router info from HERE:
1 - 2412
2 - 2417
3 - 2422
4 - 2427
5 - 2432
6 - 2437
7 - 2442
8 - 2447
9 - 2452
10 - 2457
11 - 2462
12 - 2467
13 - 2472
14 - 2484
 
Looks like no overlap, but I found out that " Use of overlapping channels causes errors, which results in packet re-transmissions and significantly decreased network performance. The same problem exists when using more than one access point on the same channel in the same physical area. This is called co-channel interference. Co-channel interference should be avoided as it can have a dramatic effect on network performance. "

Channels are 22Mhz "wide" but channel centers are only 5 Mhz apart.

24ghzchannels-100375808-orig.jpg

660px-NonOverlappingChannels2.4GHz802.11-en.svg.png


Based on my prior experience, even unit using a different L6 channel (say 1 and 2) were prone to interference.
Plus, if you look at ch-1 freq on your router (2412) then look at L6 Ch9, RF2-R0 (2413).. that's TOO close together.
Same for Ch-2 and Ch-10 (RF2-R0), and 11 and 6 (RF2-F1).. and that's just giving a cursory glance.
I'm not an expert, but with a 1hz freq spread, I doubt the separation provides enough isolation per device.
 
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