Wireless IEM systems - which one to buy / avoid ?

I just got a set of Westone AM30 Pro IEM. The ambient feature works well and the triple divers sound great for guitar.
 
I Picked up One of the AEW12 systems from Alien ears. Its a great unit for the price.

I wound up getting some custom Mold IEMS from Mitch at dream earz and theyve been fantastic.
 
Sorry if this follow-up is not 100% in the spirit of this thread, but it went stagnant already anyways.

Do you normally just put yourself into your IEM's and let the rest of the band bleed through the imperfect noise cancellation of the buds (I have done that during rehearsals, works okay), or do you have a full-band mix including yourself in the in-ears? If the latter, how does that work on a show, how do you get that mix from the sound engineer (technically speaking, not how to bribe the person).
 
Interesting question, and imho very relevant. Be advised I come at this as a mix engineer (both FOH and monitors, although I DO subscribe to the motto “friends don’t let friends mix monitors” unless it’s absolutely unavoidable...). Since I tend to use 3,500 words where 35 would probably suffice, feel free to skip my verbose explanations and go directly to the bottom for “what to do”.

Here’s some background info if you’re interested:

1) different “ears” (IEM’s) have different isolation characteristics — everything from non-customs to customs and from some bleed to super-isolation, and some really good ones even have adjustable bleed.

2) performance conditions can vary from “loud as hell and only you on ears” to “nice and quiet with no wedges/side fills anywhere” — and your ear mix requirements will be dictated/limited by same, as well as by what instrument(s) you play (in addition to guitar, obviously) AND what kind of music you’re doing.

3) your place on the Performance Totem-Pole can be a huge factor: opener vs. headliner on a 3-act tour vs. 2-sets-a-night club tour vs. local club gig where you play 3 nights a month vs. one-off outdoor festival. This is where it can get tricky, as you’re pretty much at the mercy of both the staff and system capabilities wherever you perform. You can ignore a lot of this if you’re carrying your own PA/production, although where every dime counts (and where doesn’t it?) it can be a question of “how do I get the most bang for my/our buck?”

4) most importantly (from my limited perspective, of course) who’s flying the system and what are they able/willing to give you?

The most basic club/small systems these days typically have at least two monitor mixes available, so in theory this could be a “speakers/ears” split, with the ears being a line-level onstage feed available for ear users to plug into their personal transmitter(s) — hence everyone controlling their own personal “final” volume level. Availability of more mixes (or a dedicated monitor mixer/tech) means that more mix prefs can be accommodated onstage. Duh. I’ve even seen where extremely helpful club mixers who are doing it all from the FOH board and who give a damn (like me when I stoop so low as to mix a club gig ) offer to patch personal transmitters directly into said board — many/most of which are digital these days and therefore have an abundance of available aux mixes/busses — so that they can put up personal ear mixes for many as the need arises.

Mixes can be anything and everything: as simple as kick/snr/vox (and your Axe3, assuming you/they are interested in what you’re playing) or as complex as WhatHaveYou depending on what you need to hear to play your best AND how well you’ve schmoozed/bribed whomever is flying the system.

Whilst not for everyone, my pref is to get as much ears isolation as I can so that the mix I hear is exactly that — my mix. On the bargain end of the scale, that usually means ears with compressible foam sleeves vs. the “rubber umbrella” earpieces which I’ve never had much success with. My next choice would be custom sleeves for some universal ears (last time I checked, FutureSonics had great silicon custom sleeves that REALLY isolated), and finally custom-moulded “Pro” ears. Let your budget be your guide.
*****************************

On a loud stage with only your own ear mix to compete with the wedges, I’d think you’d want your Axe first, followed by vox and an ambient mic channel, especially if you have good ear fit/isolation, since drums and bass are probably in the “already loud enough, thanks” category. BTW: sending your FOH mixer a couple of beers/Hamiltons to toss up a mic and then dial some of that into your ears mix can have a HUGE impact on your ability to engage with your audience and subsequently your performance. Even if you’re running only your Axe into your ears I’d go so far as to add a small mixer to your rig to support accepting a line-level mix from FOH/wherever and to support using your own ambience mic. This will allow you to cover a lot of different configurations depending on what you have to deal with on each gig.

On a quiet stage — which usually means multiple ears mixes — you can have whatever you need/like (assuming you ask nicely, of course). If you are among The Elite (and/or filthy rich and/or a truly gifted schmoozer) you can get yourself a stereo ears system, which allows your personal engineer to use smart panning to create more distinction between sources in your ears — not to mention stereo ambience mics AND dual-redundant stereo Axe3’s. Major Duh...

And it goes without saying (so I’ll say it): the REAL reason to use in-ear monitors is so that you’ll be able to hear your grandchildren call you PawPaw.

So There,
Bruce
 
Somewhere, I missed this threads updates, but thought I would throw in my $0.02 to add to @touch33's excellent coverage.
I play guitar, bass (mostly these days) and have been freelancing as FOH (not at the pro level, as in "career") for many, many years when my day-gig and band commitments allow.

From an FOH perspective, I see MOST "tech savvy" bands I put on stage bringing their own self-contained IEM systems.
Some are totally wireless IEM, some are a combination of that, Behringer P16's (or Aviom's) and [use our] wedges or [D] "all of the above".
We either split feeds from our snake to their digital console (often an X32R or Mackie/Soundcraft/? equivalent) or - depending on the size of the band, run it all to their console and take a L/R feed to our digital system. In the latter case, they often use backing tracks and travel with their own sound crew. We simply provide the PA.
With this config - something my busy country band has been doing for almost 5 yrs - the band controls their own monitor mixes, removing dependence on FOH who are busy enough without having to adjust monitor mixes too.

Here's my bands config to make us self-contained that works for every venue type we play.
upload_2019-4-6_12-33-53.png

As illustration - Next weekend I have 2 Festival headliners that are self contained. Both run Behringer systems. One is all wireless IEM (7 piece) and the other is all P16M's (5-piece). The latter is a fly-in from LA, so we also have to outsource drums, amps, instruments, etc.
There won't be much to do for the 1st headliner as we'll get an L/R feed and they bring their own "mix" guy. The 2nd, we do all FOH and map each channel back to the P16's based on their tech rider settings.
THEY mix their own monitors.

All that said, "my" IEM mix differs when I play guitar vs bass vs secular vs church.
This is the point where it becomes user and venue specific.
For my country band, I put lead vox center, mine at about 1pm, slightly lower in the mix and the other 2 about 11 am and lower than mine. Enough to hear, but not throw me off :)
Bass, kick, hat/snare are ALL center with bass/kick prominent, then 2 guitars panned L/R (10 and 2) based on stage location, then pedal steel/fiddle centered but audible. NO toms or OH's in my mix. I can usually hear them fine thru my buds and don't need them to do my job.
Church?? We have 2 elec and 2 acoustic guitars and a choir. I usually pick which 2 (of the 4) gtrs I need to hear and drop the others from my mix. Choir is not usually in my mix, but keys are there, and other instruments/vocals are panned relative to stage location.
The setup lets me run my own IEM mix in each situation.
There is no one-size-fits-all, and control remains with the player.

The REAL key is to keep IEM master levels LOW enough to where you minimize the isolation. The quality of the buds also factors in.
 
Resurrecting an old thread...
Anyone still using and recommend the MiPro? I am leaning really heavy towards the SennG4 but this MiPro seems to be a really good option.

I need a stereo set after using mono Shures and recently the XVive.
 
Resurrecting an old thread...
Anyone still using and recommend the MiPro? I am leaning really heavy towards the SennG4 but this MiPro seems to be a really good option.

I need a stereo set after using mono Shures and recently the XVive.
MIPRO all the way. It is flawless and had zero issues in many years of use. Digital and will do pick up interference.
 
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Resurrecting an old thread...
Anyone still using and recommend the MiPro? I am leaning really heavy towards the SennG4 but this MiPro seems to be a really good option.

I need a stereo set after using mono Shures and recently the XVive.

MIPRO all the way. I is flawless and had zero issue sin many years of use. Digital and will do pick up interference.

Having had my Senn G3 for a few years and running a STEREO mix, I've recently done a ton of research on whether the upgrade to the G4 or some other system is worth the expen$e!
The Mipro specs are awesome.. only one issue... I can't find ANYWHERE that shows the system has a built-in LIMITER.
NOT only does it NOT have an adjustable limiter, it doesn't appear to have a limiter AT ALL!
As someone who has been [exclusively] on IEM's for close to 10 yrs, this automatically scrubs them from my list.
One ASOLUTELY HAS to HAVE a limiter in ANY IEM system.. to protect your hearing!
Wait until someone drops a hand-held mic!!

Other than that, the specs are awesome and would put the 909 System back at the top of my upgrade list.. ahead of the G$ :)
If someone can prove me incorrect, I'll happily add it back!

To be blunt, I'm simply will NOT buy a wireless system that doesn't have a limiter included. I'd even pay extra for it, but I don't want anecdotal evidence of "how great it is".. it either has a limiter or it doesn't! Nor will I add one into the chain in today's digital tech age.

My $0.02
 
I have the Shure Psm900 and the psm300. I had the Sennhieser G3 and sold it, I like the shures better. Psm900 is what I currently use and I got the dual channel receiver pack to go with it. My Psm300 is backup. I think you should see if you can try some out and choose what you like best if possible.
 
Having had my Senn G3 for a few years and running a STEREO mix, I've recently done a ton of research on whether the upgrade to the G4 or some other system is worth the expen$e!
The Mipro specs are awesome.. only one issue... I can't find ANYWHERE that shows the system has a built-in LIMITER.
NOT only does it NOT have an adjustable limiter, it doesn't appear to have a limiter AT ALL!
As someone who has been [exclusively] on IEM's for close to 10 yrs, this automatically scrubs them from my list.
One ASOLUTELY HAS to HAVE a limiter in ANY IEM system.. to protect your hearing!
Wait until someone drops a hand-held mic!!

Other than that, the specs are awesome and would put the 909 System back at the top of my upgrade list.. ahead of the G$ :)
If someone can prove me incorrect, I'll happily add it back!

To be blunt, I'm simply will NOT buy a wireless system that doesn't have a limiter included. I'd even pay extra for it, but I don't want anecdotal evidence of "how great it is".. it either has a limiter or it doesn't! Nor will I add one into the chain in today's digital tech age.

My $0.02

I understand your point regarding the limiter. I will check on that now that you brought it up.
All I will say is I've been using the MiPro for quite a while and more recently 3 other guys in the band also purchased these 909 systems. We have a combiner that allows us to use one fin antennae for all of us. AMAZING results!! Super clear.
Belt packs are dual antenna, optional mono or stereo, along with EQ options as well. Quite a few channels to choose from too.

We play stages of all sizes, indoors and outdoors, and the only issue we have ever had was the connecting wire that goes from the back jack to the front jack "went out" after a re-racking. Caused some problems momentarily, yet once we found the problem, we were back to impeccable performance. A couple of us have other systems that are now backups, including Sennheiser and Shure.

Of course, YMMV and to each his own. Use what you find to be the best for YOUR application.
 
I understand your point regarding the limiter. I will check on that now that you brought it up.
All I will say is I've been using the MiPro for quite a while and more recently 3 other guys in the band also purchased these 909 systems. We have a combiner that allows us to use one fin antennae for all of us. AMAZING results!! Super clear.
Belt packs are dual antenna, optional mono or stereo, along with EQ options as well. Quite a few channels to choose from too.

We play stages of all sizes, indoors and outdoors, and the only issue we have ever had was the connecting wire that goes from the back jack to the front jack "went out" after a re-racking. Caused some problems momentarily, yet once we found the problem, we were back to impeccable performance. A couple of us have other systems that are now backups, including Sennheiser and Shure.

Of course, YMMV and to each his own. Use what you find to be the best for YOUR application.
Well, not to throw a wrench in the works, ;) but since I posted my comments above that you quoted, I've talked with a number of "pros" who build IEM systems for "national acts" both on the phone and online, NONE seem to care about in-line limiters anymore!
I've been on IEM's for 10+ yrs.. I guess technology has changed quite a bit in the interval, and (I checked) I've had my G3 for SIX years now!
WOW.. time flies!
Based on that feedback... I [literally] just bought a MI-909 to replace my aging Senn G3.
Far CHEAPER than a G4 upgrade.

When A/B'ing the 2 systems at home with same baselines (cuz next gig isn't 'til 6/12), there's simply no comparison between the 2.
Mipro WINS hands down - in every category, except... the missing limiter! :)

Anxious to try it out at my next gig..
I plan to sell the G3 as my backup is going sans IEM and I need to offset the expense - not many gigs in the last 18 months! :(
 
Well, not to throw a wrench in the works, ;) but since I posted my comments above that you quoted, I've talked with a number of "pros" who build IEM systems for "national acts" both on the phone and online, NONE seem to care about in-line limiters anymore!
I've been on IEM's for 10+ yrs.. I guess technology has changed quite a bit in the interval, and (I checked) I've had my G3 for SIX years now!
WOW.. time flies!
Based on that feedback... I [literally] just bought a MI-909 to replace my aging Senn G3.
Far CHEAPER than a G4 upgrade.

When A/B'ing the 2 systems at home with same baselines (cuz next gig isn't 'til 6/12), there's simply no comparison between the 2.
Mipro WINS hands down - in every category, except... the missing limiter! :)

Anxious to try it out at my next gig..
I plan to sell the G3 as my backup is going sans IEM and I need to offset the expense - not many gigs in the last 18 months! :(
So... How are you addressing the risk? Hard knee compression on your digital mixer?
 
So... How are you addressing the risk? Hard knee compression on your digital mixer?
Every IEM output gets the same processing chain: 5band parametric EQ, peak limiter, general compressor, dynamic EQ or “broadcast” processing and final safety limiter. Bypass the unnecessary modules. Device settings are important and must “play nicely with each other”. I mostly use Symetrix “Symnet” programmable processors, often via Danté dig transport.
 
So... How are you addressing the risk? Hard knee compression on your digital mixer?
Yes, if necessary. My X32 Rack - which runs our monitor mixes has both brick-wall limiter settings available on the output buss compressor, and supports inserting a [built-in] Limiter on the same buss.. So lot's of choices.
In 10+ yrs of IEM use, I've only had one instance where a limiter MIGHT have been required.. so we'll see how that plays out for the future as more and more bands move away from wedges.. . I'll still put one in the chain, but ahead of the wireless system. :)
 
Having had my Senn G3 for a few years and running a STEREO mix, I've recently done a ton of research on whether the upgrade to the G4 or some other system is worth the expen$e!
The Mipro specs are awesome.. only one issue... I can't find ANYWHERE that shows the system has a built-in LIMITER.
NOT only does it NOT have an adjustable limiter, it doesn't appear to have a limiter AT ALL!
As someone who has been [exclusively] on IEM's for close to 10 yrs, this automatically scrubs them from my list.
One ASOLUTELY HAS to HAVE a limiter in ANY IEM system.. to protect your hearing!
Wait until someone drops a hand-held mic!!

Other than that, the specs are awesome and would put the 909 System back at the top of my upgrade list.. ahead of the G$ :)
If someone can prove me incorrect, I'll happily add it back!

To be blunt, I'm simply will NOT buy a wireless system that doesn't have a limiter included. I'd even pay extra for it, but I don't want anecdotal evidence of "how great it is".. it either has a limiter or it doesn't! Nor will I add one into the chain in today's digital tech age.

My $0.02
Put limiter on the aux send you are using for IEM. Problem solved.
 
What about latency? I am specifically referring to using the Mipro for VOCALS.
There's nothing worse than hearing yourself through monitors 5 or 10 ms after you hear yourself through your own skull.
I have not tried the MiPro but I'd like to hear some feedback from users using them with vocals.
 
What about latency? I am specifically referring to using the Mipro for VOCALS.
There's nothing worse than hearing yourself through monitors 5 or 10 ms after you hear yourself through your own skull.
I have not tried the MiPro but I'd like to hear some feedback from users using them with vocals.
5.84ms. The latency from a floor wedge 6 feet away is comparable to the 6ms latency in your ears.
 
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