will I be missing anything by using 5" monitors?

I am looking at monitors to complete my home studio setup, making measurements, etc. Specifically I am looking at Yamaha Hs5's or Hs7's. From what I am seeing, 7's would be pushing it space wise where as 5's would be perfect.

I am afraid that 5's would not sound good with modelers, although I haven't auditioned them in person yet. I am looking for some opinions. I know the 7's would give a better bass response but I am wondering if that just gives an illusion of being "better".

These would only be using for basic recording and practicing at home, as I am a home player for now.

I do want to add that right now, for everyday listening I am using the built in speakers from my iMac, and the Axe Fx recordings sound amazing even through that. I am assuming 5" speakers would sound even better then that, so if that is the case, maybe it will be good enough for my needs.

Again, opinions are welcome.

I've got a pair of HS7's and they sound very nice indeed..
IMHO, they are the best bang for buck out there..
never heard the HS5's though.. I'll guess they'll be a little stronger in the mids, and a little less deep with the lows
 
There are times I really miss Jay. He was willing to jump in and point out the serious, physics-based flaws in arguments like many above and tolerate the inevitable noise. I'm not going to wade into this because I won't engage in the too predictable exchanges. I would suggest some basic reading on loudspeaker driver science which, for example, give the simple relationships between speaker/driver size and limitations in frequency/phase reproduction and why. I no longer have my old texts, but I recall a hobbyist-level book by Martin Colloms that covers some of this stuff in a not-too-dummied-down manner; it may be out of print.

Thanks for deciding to use the internet and providing some LOL's. I get the feeling you haven't used it too often
 
Mikko, you need new Genelecs... 8351 at minimum. :)
I already have a nice sounding room. ;) Genelecs are not flatter. They may have more low end but you really need to enter their high end speakers to get what they're famous for.
 
I think the main thing with any pair of monitors is just really knowing them
and that applies just as much if you're in a pro studio or a home studio
of course a home studio will never compete with a pro studio [unless you're absolutely loaded and seriously experienced]
however, it don't mean that it's impossible to get good results..
I've found that the trick to really getting to know your monitors is a nice collection of reference songs / pieces
you play them through your monitoring system [often] and it gives your ear something to aim at
 
I think the main thing with any pair of monitors is just really knowing them
+1 on this. There are many well known audio engineers that don't have a neutral sound in their studio. They simply have a sound they know and are used to hearing. Obviously having a system that produces sound through-out the spectrum is a good starting point but also if you're working with a sub you need to have it properly set.
 
+1 on this. There are many well known audio engineers that don't have a neutral sound in their studio. They simply have a sound they know and are used to hearing. Obviously having a system that produces sound through-out the spectrum is a good starting point but also if you're working with a sub you need to have it properly set.

First off, jealous of your new room. We are building a new house and I have set aside a budget to take my mix room to the next level. Hope the wife doesn't grab that part of the budget though! :)

For me, it is all about the room treatment and design. I use NS10's in a well treated room. They are not flat. But what is critical to me is the midrange response.

IMO, getting really good neutral bass and low bass requires a very expensive room. Even the best monitors won't be sufficient. I've learned to spend more money on the room and less on the monitors.
 
First off, jealous of your new room. We are building a new house and I have set aside a budget to take my mix room to the next level. Hope the wife doesn't grab that part of the budget though! :)

For me, it is all about the room treatment and design. I use NS10's in a well treated room. They are not flat. But what is critical to me is the midrange response.

IMO, getting really good neutral bass and low bass requires a very expensive room. Even the best monitors won't be sufficient. I've learned to spend more money on the room and less on the monitors.
Another +1 for room treatment. These are actually pictures of my room posted by a good buddy of mine:



So it's definitely something that also needed permission from my fiance. :D I have a white color theme and all that which is why the HS7s are also white. If I treated the room as much as I really wanted it would not look so pretty. :D That being said I really enjoyed building my own acoustics panels and they definitely get me where I need to be. My room is just the right size for a tight sound. It could be tighter but I got warned about not creating a dead sounding room either. So far I like how it works. Definitely not an expensive room in my case. Let's just say that there are 7 guitars in this room that are all worth way more than what I spent on the room.
 
A tec spec like: 20Hz - 20000Hz say exactly NOTHING. (Of you can measure something at 40Hz, but if this is -20db and 1000Hz is 0db, it means in fact ... ?!?!)
A tec spec like: 20Hz - 20000Hz (+/- 3db) say SOMETHING.

Don`t underrate room influences! If your Monitors are FRFR, fine. But if your room is not, than you run into problems! Lately, if you compare your tweaked sounds at rehearsal live thru PA....

Enemy No.1: standing waves / room modes... resulting in (lower end) frequency cancelation and/or peaking...
 
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Another +1 for room treatment. These are actually pictures of my room posted by a good buddy of mine:



So it's definitely something that also needed permission from my fiance. :D I have a white color theme and all that which is why the HS7s are also white. If I treated the room as much as I really wanted it would not look so pretty. :D That being said I really enjoyed building my own acoustics panels and they definitely get me where I need to be. My room is just the right size for a tight sound. It could be tighter but I got warned about not creating a dead sounding room either. So far I like how it works. Definitely not an expensive room in my case. Let's just say that there are 7 guitars in this room that are all worth way more than what I spent on the room.


My room now is treated with professionally made panels and analyzed for placement.

I want my next room to be designed by a good acoustician. I will post some pics if the project goes to completion. We are in the planning phase right now.

In the new room I am hope to get a custom monitor solution and custom acoustic design: http://www.carltatzdesign.com/phantomFocus-system.html
 
I had a pair of those JBL LSR305's that everyone raves about. I couldnt get into them. Ive been using a pair of 6" alesis monitors for nearly a decade now and there just wasnt any low end or real impressive sound from them to me. I ended up returning them rather than trying the 308's because of all the terrible reviews on rumbling and poorly sealed housings. I figure when you are in the sub $800 range, opinons dont matter, what your ears think does.
 
A tec spec like: 20Hz - 20000Hz say exactly NOTHING. (Of you can measure something at 40Hz, but if this is -20db and 1000Hz is 0db, it means in fact ... ?!?!)
A tec spec like: 20Hz - 20000Hz (+/- 3db) say SOMETHING.

Don`t underrate room influences! If your Monitors are FRFR, fine. But if your room is not, than you run into problems! Lately, if you compare your tweaked sounds at rehearsal live thru PA....

Enemy No.1: standing waves / room modes... resulting in (lower end) frequency cancelation and/or peaking...

Yeah, take some room measurements or guitar cab impulses and you'll be surprised at what little adjustments to the room can make. It's easy to forget how fast sound travels, and how reflections can really mess things up for shooting a cab impulse for example. It won't matter if you're using a cardioid microphone with rear rejection, and have it placed flat on the grill to capture a quick sine wave sweep when sound travels at 340.29 m/s. The room will always make a difference.

So then with studio monitors you have the room, crossover, crosstalk, and whatever other problems stem from this. I'd be more worried about that then the specific monitor you use, so if the 5 inch saves you necessary work space then I'd say pair it with a sub and become obsessed with getting the room sounding right :)

Edit: not to mention the atmosphere/temperature changes the rate of speed at which sound travels, so if untreated properly your room acoustics might actually work and sound a little bit different at night then during the day, or in the winter vs summer :fearscream:
 
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How does that work though? You mix on speakers with non hyped low end, so how much bass do you put? Then the end user plays it on a hyped system, and isn't the bass too strong?

Basically, how do you know when you have the right amount of bass on your not hyped speakers?

This is always something a struggle with as a self taught engineer hobbyist.

You dont, but you will never know what the end user will play through - or what EQ settings they use.

Consider this - if you mix on a bass heavy, or mid scoped system - and the end users system is bass light, or mid boosted the end result would be further away from the "mix'd" sound than if you mix'd on a neutral system. Mix on a neutral system and your in the middle of the possibles - so end users with extreme responses on either side of the spectrum are the same difference away from the original.

So - ALWAYS mix on neutral/flat response speakers. The only exception to that, is if your mixing for your own - or a single known end system. If that is the case, mix on that.
 
FWIF to the OP, I tried the D5s and didnt get on with them. Great sound - BUT the high end and the low end didnt seem to blend right. It was almost as if the responses were from two different sources mix'd rather than a single that blended well in the mids. I sent them back, and went for Adam A5X's and havent looked back.
 
I thought I was pretty clear. :D Yes, most monitors produce sound that low. Yes, most headphones are advertised as 20hz-20khz based on their capabilities to make sound between those frequencies. Would I trust my EQ decisions hearing a snare low end on these monitors? No. Even the professionals using the original NS10s say that the only way they know when the low end is right is when the speakers start farting a certain way and can't handle the low end.

Take a look at the official graph:

12803174_10153351509095334_7116088359056361915_n.jpg


That next line after 100hz is 200hz. Now I know you might look at that graph thinking "that's flat enough". It's an advertisement curve. Even in this picture that scoop is around -3dB which is double volume by the way. But in reality in this treated room from about 200hz down was a quite clear frequency roll off point. That's all I'm saying. :) Sure it produces sound all the way to 20hz I guess.


The low freq stated on speakers, also has to spec at what -db level it is at that point. some (unscrupulous) manufacturers spec at -10db, with is half volume (not -3bd as stated), but most spec the low Freq at the -3db point (which is half power). On the graph above, the speakers low freq is probably spec'd at 50hz (or there abouts) as thats where the big drop off cuts the -3db point. The dip at 100 hz is getting close to -3bd, but doesnt go below that. If they used the dubious -10db point, they could still justify a low Freq of around 40 Hz - but they would have to spec the 40Hz was at -10db.

50-60 Hz is pretty normal for reference monitors. Even 10" dont often go much below 35-40Hz.
 
A quick check - and the HS7s are spec'd at 42 Hz LF. Seems there using the -10db figure in the specs, though its not stated. To be honest, thats a liitle naughty, but at the price point there not a pro, or even semi pro level really so Im not surprised.

For comparison to other speakers, id use the -3db point of the graph and go for 50-55hz.
 
You dont, but you will never know what the end user will play through - or what EQ settings they use.

Consider this - if you mix on a bass heavy, or mid scoped system - and the end users system is bass light, or mid boosted the end result would be further away from the "mix'd" sound than if you mix'd on a neutral system. Mix on a neutral system and your in the middle of the possibles - so end users with extreme responses on either side of the spectrum are the same difference away from the original.

So - ALWAYS mix on neutral/flat response speakers. The only exception to that, is if your mixing for your own - or a single known end system. If that is the case, mix on that.
To some extent yes but it's way more important to know how your speakers sound and get used to them. That's something that will automatically happen over time if you listen to other music on those speakers as well. That is a very important part of being able to judge a mix; reference other mixes and listen to how other people have done it. When you get to a point where you can clearly hear that even really good mixes have a different EQ balance etc. that's when you know that you're getting a dynamic true reference. Like I said before many of the top producers do not have a perfectly flat sound. It's more about knowing how music should sound in your room. Your ears are not 100% flat either and loudness affects how you hear things as well.
 
FWIF to the OP, I tried the D5s and didnt get on with them. Great sound - BUT the high end and the low end didnt seem to blend right. It was almost as if the responses were from two different sources mix'd rather than a single that blended well in the mids. I sent them back, and went for Adam A5X's and havent looked back.

Different strokes, different folks .... My experience was the opposite. I felt that the D5's blended so much better ( because of the coaxial design, I guess ). I felt that the sound was all coming from the same place, whereas my Adam A5's I definitely felt like the sound ( hi's vrs lows ) were coming from different places.

But that said, I never owned the A5X's and I'm aware that they represent a pretty dramatic improvement over the old design ....
 
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