will I be missing anything by using 5" monitors?

R

rich2k4

Inspired
I am looking at monitors to complete my home studio setup, making measurements, etc. Specifically I am looking at Yamaha Hs5's or Hs7's. From what I am seeing, 7's would be pushing it space wise where as 5's would be perfect.

I am afraid that 5's would not sound good with modelers, although I haven't auditioned them in person yet. I am looking for some opinions. I know the 7's would give a better bass response but I am wondering if that just gives an illusion of being "better".

These would only be using for basic recording and practicing at home, as I am a home player for now.

I do want to add that right now, for everyday listening I am using the built in speakers from my iMac, and the Axe Fx recordings sound amazing even through that. I am assuming 5" speakers would sound even better then that, so if that is the case, maybe it will be good enough for my needs.

Again, opinions are welcome.
 
rich2k4 said:
Again, opinions are welcome.
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Yes, the Yamaha HS5 speakers sound fine for what you want to do. I have a set as part of my reference monitoring system and have used them to jam with the Axe-Fx before. I must also note that I do have the HS8S subwoofer attached to those particular monitors and that does enhance the playing experience. However, I have jammed with the Axe-Fx's Output 2 going straight to just the HS5 speakers and it sounds good, too. I think that you would be happy with the HS5.
 
bradlake said:
Consider Equator D5s.
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Not if he's worried about enough bass response. They do fall a little short in that department. The HS5 seems to handle sub material a bit better when pushed.
 
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Gregmang said:
hehehhe. I record bass tracks with them as well and they are fine.
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I'm sure they do sound fine. I'm not disputing that fact. What I am saying is that the HS5 has a fuller bottom end than the D5. Just trying to make a recommendation based solely on what the OP wants.
 
Monitors are designed to be accurate, not sound good. That doesn't mean well mixed music doesn't sound good through them, but they aren't supposed to have hyped bass, accentuated mids and all the other things most stereo systems have such as a "rock" or "dance" music setting.

You don't want a monitor system with too full of low end, because it will sound fine on your system, but then we anyone else hears it it will sound way too thin. Its a common issue when folks mix stuff on systems with powered subs. They usually have the sub level way too high, so then when they hear their material it naturally sounds nice and full, but only because their sub is over hyping the low end. Go play it elsewhere and is sounds totally thin.

5" speakers sound just fine, especially for guitar applications, and home listening levels.
 
How does that work though? You mix on speakers with non hyped low end, so how much bass do you put? Then the end user plays it on a hyped system, and isn't the bass too strong?

Basically, how do you know when you have the right amount of bass on your not hyped speakers?

This is always something a struggle with as a self taught engineer hobbyist.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
How does that work though? You mix on speakers with non hyped low end, so how much bass do you put? Then the end user plays it on a hyped system, and isn't the bass too strong?

Basically, how do you know when you have the right amount of bass on your not hyped speakers?

This is always something a struggle with as a self taught engineer hobbyist.
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It's about being familiar enough with your gear to know how it translates to other situations. Then playing your mix through other gear to see if you guessed right. :)

The truth is, these days more music is listened to through consumer gear with strong mid-bass but limited bass extension. In those situations, mixing with a sub can give a distorted view of what most folks will hear.
 
Chris, you're absolutely right. And therein lies the challenge of mixing in today's world. You have to compensate for everything from car stereos to earbuds, home systems to crappy computer & phone speakers, to large PA's. The producers who can make music sound good on anything are amazing.

Sometimes I'm glad that professionally I mostly do interview-style video with a very quiet music bed underneath it. Since it's usually for websites, I expect most people to watch on either their computer or their phone. As long as I get the subject speaking clearly and the music isn't in the way, the rest doesn't really matter to the viewers.
 
rich2k4 said:
I am looking at monitors to complete my home studio setup, making measurements, etc. Specifically I am looking at Yamaha Hs5's or Hs7's. From what I am seeing, 7's would be pushing it space wise where as 5's would be perfect.

I am afraid that 5's would not sound good with modelers, although I haven't auditioned them in person yet. I am looking for some opinions. I know the 7's would give a better bass response but I am wondering if that just gives an illusion of being "better".

These would only be using for basic recording and practicing at home, as I am a home player for now.

I do want to add that right now, for everyday listening I am using the built in speakers from my iMac, and the Axe Fx recordings sound amazing even through that. I am assuming 5" speakers would sound even better then that, so if that is the case, maybe it will be good enough for my needs.

Again, opinions are welcome.
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I think the AXE would sound fine on any quality studio monitor. The only thing I noticed is, with me playing live, I have to configure my presets, using what I use live, at live volume level. But you being in the studio environment, should not have that problem.
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
How does that work though? You mix on speakers with non hyped low end, so how much bass do you put? Then the end user plays it on a hyped system, and isn't the bass too strong?

Basically, how do you know when you have the right amount of bass on your not hyped speakers?

This is always something a struggle with as a self taught engineer hobbyist.
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If mixing and mastering, of course you have to start with a good mix. Each instrument being in their own EQ'd place. And you would almost have to work with several monitors, stereos, car stereos, sub, no sub, headphones, cellphone, etc., in order to have a compatible mix. Since that could get costly and frustrating, I mix as flat as possible, then tweak as needed. The finished track will sound like it should on most systems. Some will boost bass/treble or cut.
 
I have a pair of 7's and a sub and I've measured my room and it is ridiculously flat. Not sure if you guys read these graphs but:

ML%20ROOM%20SPECTRUM.png


And this is my room at home and not the studio so you can imagine how happy this makes me. That being said without the sub I could not judge anything below 200hz so I used my headphones for setting the low end. With the sub I can judge below 50hz which is insane. And when I say "I can judge something" I mean that I have a neutral representation of what I'm hearing and something that's not hyped. It's quite essential for the work that I do but even this sound setup is not enough at times. My point is that even the 7's need a sub to give you a full range.

rich2k4 said:
I am afraid that 5's would not sound good with modelers.
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The 5's will sound just as good with modelers and real amps as will any speaker that's meant to give a neutral sound. I know we're almost like a religious group in here but we haven't differentiated modelers and real amps in here for years. :)
 
Rex said:
Yow. Time for new monitors? :)
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ML SOUND LAB said:
And when I say "I can judge something" I mean that I have a neutral representation of what I'm hearing and something that's not hyped.
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I thought I was pretty clear. :D Yes, most monitors produce sound that low. Yes, most headphones are advertised as 20hz-20khz based on their capabilities to make sound between those frequencies. Would I trust my EQ decisions hearing a snare low end on these monitors? No. Even the professionals using the original NS10s say that the only way they know when the low end is right is when the speakers start farting a certain way and can't handle the low end.

Take a look at the official graph:

12803174_10153351509095334_7116088359056361915_n.jpg


That next line after 100hz is 200hz. Now I know you might look at that graph thinking "that's flat enough". It's an advertisement curve. Even in this picture that scoop is around -3dB which is double volume by the way. But in reality in this treated room from about 200hz down was a quite clear frequency roll off point. That's all I'm saying. :) Sure it produces sound all the way to 20hz I guess.
 
HS7's are a great choice, but as Mikko has pointed out there's the rated frequency range and what is actually being projected at near flat levels in your room. Another problem can be passover frequencies which can cause phase out. Someone pointed out the Equators earlier, and the coaxial setup for the drivers is very intriguing, and according to them helps remove potential phase issues from the crossover as well as provide a very wide spread. All great choices, but getting room measurements like Mikko showed will help you find the best results no matter what setup you go with. The greatest curse is thinking you sound great on your home setup, and hearing it elsewhere and finding out how crap it is.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
I thought I was pretty clear. :D
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You were. But there's a whole octave below 200 Hz that many monitors can handle without a sub. Even in that factory response curve, there are other 3 dB deviations that a sub can't touch. And more of them that don't show up in a factory-smoothed curve at all.

For the record, 3 dB is double the power, but not double the volume. That's closer to 10 dB.
 
There are times I really miss Jay. He was willing to jump in and point out the serious, physics-based flaws in arguments like many above and tolerate the inevitable noise. I'm not going to wade into this because I won't engage in the too predictable exchanges. I would suggest some basic reading on loudspeaker driver science which, for example, give the simple relationships between speaker/driver size and limitations in frequency/phase reproduction and why. I no longer have my old texts, but I recall a hobbyist-level book by Martin Colloms that covers some of this stuff in a not-too-dummied-down manner; it may be out of print.
 
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