Why was Output 2 designed to be wideband?

Let's be constructive. Can everyone list what amps they use that have hiss and can people list the amps they use that don't have hiss. Thanks.

It's been listed many times that it is not only amps but other gear like external pedals and delays all using OUT 2 and hissing. Just listing amps is not getting to heart of the issue.

Click on Trazan's screen name to see his MP3 upload of using his timefactor and OUT 2 (pre mod).
 
I am simply curious as to why output 1 and output 2 were not designed to be the same?
I could see some option to be able to drive pedals properly (ala amp loop, for one), but to not have that as a switchable option, given the expected uses (such as.. mult'ing, with expectation/desire of identical signal production).

Also, still curious how long the "free fix" offer is good? Also, for those out of warranty period, or those not afforded one (2nd hand, for one), is there a DIY fix? How hard is it to un-mod, if a subsequent owner might not want the mod/fix in place? Which also provides for the question: what "harm" is incurred by the mod/fix? Has it been scoped/tested?
 
It's been listed many times that it is not only amps but other gear like external pedals and delays all using OUT 2 and hissing. Just listing amps is not getting to heart of the issue.

Click on Trazan's screen name to see his MP3 upload of using his timefactor and OUT 2 (pre mod).

Agreed which is why a few posts later I suggested we list all gear that hisses, and if it's an amp specifically using the 4CM please tell us. The OP wanted to contain the discussion to 4CM only but I think as long as we clearly define the gear and methods used, all data should be recorded.

I love this forum but sometimes people are in a rush and don't define important things when they are asking or answering a question. I've tried to help a lot but when people don't answer my questions because they don't feel it's important, we can't get closer to the solution.

Anyway, let's continue with building the list. I'll try to consolidate and hopefully luca can edit the first post from time to time with the list as it grows?
 
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For me, its really bad when trying to use a dry signal out of output 2. Using the mirrored method to a set of floor monitors (full wet signal) and using humbuster cables it sounds fantastic.
 
mirrored method means copy out1 to out2? if yes, without humbuster cables it does not sound good?

assuming "dry signal out" meant not copy out1 to out2?
 
Guitar speakers by nature roll off a lot of high end frequencies, the logical reasoning behind making out2 wideband is so that when running 4 cm into your amp it(the axe 2 and your amp) performs as well as possible in the higher range frequencies. If the axe2 is best designed to run on a flat response sound reproduction system then running wideband into your amp which is far far from flat response would give you POTENTIALLY a more even frequency response. Problem is a lot of newer designed amps(read high gain or some boutique high end) perform much better in high frequencies already vs vintage design amps, better transformers, cleaner circuits, tighter tolerances on parts... Or... for instance guys that run the popular EV model speakers which have wider frequency response, same problem different path. So then you take these amps which don't necessarily roll off highs as much(and tend to be hissy on their own as many high gain amps are) and you run the wideband input in to them, you get enhanced hiss. The problem is not the logic behind the wideband output, it is, in my estimation, the frequency reproduction of whatever your setup is. I'd imagine most guys in here talking about not having hiss are running traditional vintage type design amps through regular guitar speakers, guys with hiss are likely running out 2 into a modern high gain amp, or a speaker setup that already produces high frequencies more than a traditional guitar speaker. Don't get me wrong I'm no sound genius here, but this seems pretty basic and logical.
 
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Guitar speakers by nature roll off a lot of high end frequencies, the logical reasoning behind making out2 wide and is so running 4 cm into your amp performs as well as possible in the higher range frequencies. If the axe2 is best designed to run on a flat response sound reproduction system then running wideband into your amp which is far far from flat response would give you POTENTIALLY a more even frequency response. Problem is a lot of newer designed amps(read high gain or some boutique high end) perform much better in high frequencies already vs vintage design amps, better transformers, cleaner circuits, tighter tolerances on parts... Or... for instance guys that run the popular EV model speakers which have wider frequency response, same problem different path. So then you take these amps which don't necessarily roll off highs as much(and tend to be hissy on their own as many high gain amps are) and you run the wideband input in to them, you get enhanced hiss. The problem is not the logic behind the wideband output, it is, in my estimation, the frequency reproduction of whatever your setup is. I'd imagine most guys in here talking about not having hiss are running traditional vintage type design amps through regular guitar speakers, guys with hiss are likely running out 2 into a modern high gain amp, or a speaker setup that already produces high frequencies more than a traditional guitar speaker. Don't get me wrong I'm no sound genius here, but this seems pretty basic and logical.

Um....no.
 
Agreed which is why a few posts later I suggested we list all gear that hisses, and if it's an amp specifically using the 4CM please tell us. The OP wanted to contain the discussion to 4CM only but I think as long as we clearly define the gear and methods used, all data should be recorded.

I love this forum but sometimes people are in a rush and don't define important things when they are asking or answering a question. I've tried to help a lot but when people don't answer my questions because they don't feel it's important, we can't get closer to the solution.

Anyway, let's continue with building the list. I'll try to consolidate and hopefully luca can edit the first post from time to time with the list as it grows?

Nice one mate that sounds good..all setups using Output 2 that are getting hiss should definitely be noted, not just 4CM.
 
Simply because everything he wrote is nonsense.

You are making a REALLY good argument for 'I'm just going to be pissed off guy', and noone can help.

You may have to live with your questions being unanswered for awhile. If you CAN'T live with that, then go away for a time, and come back. I'm sorry if that seems like you need a time out, but you do.

You (and a few others) have the capability of pushing this thread over the edge. I'd like it to be a constructive and informational venting avenue, and you have a right to free speech, not a right to free speech here without consequences.

Thanks.

Ron
 
If anyone has 4CM experience with an Orange Dark Terror and AxeII I'd be interested to know your thoughts as I've been poised to get one for a while. I almost pulled the trigger last weekend but held off given the discussions here about Output II hiss but if someone has had good 4cm results with this amp I may go ahead with it (and you may ask why I want that when I have an Axefx + FRFR gear - answer is - I've always tried to keep all the worlds available in my home setup FRFR, Axe to regular Cab, Tube Amp via 4CM - I sold my Traynor amp some time ago and have been looking to replace it ever since but have not really played much I liked until I tried the little DT beast a couple of weeks ago which really perked my interest). In any event I may go ahead anyway and just use the use for back-end effects on that rig. If things progress as usual, the DT will be collecting dust or on Ebay in a year until I finally reach the conclusion popular here that Axe/FRFR is really the way to go - isn't the journey fun though!
 
Please explain, I'm open to alternative explanations, but no because.... Is not a valid response unless you're five.

Because you're not explaining, you're making up an explanation.

By "wideband" in this regard we're not talking about audible frequencies. If you're talking about audible frequencies, Output 1 would also be "wideband", right? Output 1 doesn't have the hiss problem. "Wideband" as talked about here implies ultrasonic frequencies. Those need to be filtered out to avoid intermodulation into the audible frequency band.
 
You are making a REALLY good argument for 'I'm just going to be pissed off guy', and noone can help.

You may have to live with your questions being unanswered for awhile. If you CAN'T live with that, then go away for a time, and come back. I'm sorry if that seems like you need a time out, but you do.

You (and a few others) have the capability of pushing this thread over the edge. I'd like it to be a constructive and informational venting avenue, and you have a right to free speech, not a right to free speech here without consequences.

Thanks.

Ron
Contrary to your assumption, I'm not pissed off. I'm just sitting on my coupon...waiting. Call me whatever you like guys. Buy into whatever you like. The elephant in the room isn't my creation.
 
Please explain, I'm open to alternative explanations, but no because.... Is not a valid response unless you're five.
I will try to set aside 30 minutes or so tomorrow to explain why what you wrote has absolutely nothing to do with the problem.
 
So it's clear that Output2 gives some people "hiss" issues when used in a 4CM setup. That's a pity.
It's also clear that there's a mod available which solves this to great extent.

So what's more here to explore?
Let's assume (yes, this is purely hypothetical) Cliff visits this thread and writes: "Maybe we should have made another choice regarding Out2"?
Would that help anyone? No, it wouldn't.

Regarding the mod: it's available and not pricey. Hundreds of mods exist for real amps (SLO, JVM etc.) and they cost a lot.
 
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