Why is De-Phase necessary?

Yeah, can someone advise what should be the ideal setting (0 to 10) be like for this cool feature? Really curious how are the other Axe users dialling it in. Thanks....
That's like asking, "What is the ideal setting for the Treble knob?" :) If answers that question by giving you a number, they're full of BS.

The ideal setting really is just a matter of what sounds best to you. Just like the Treble knob, you'll set it to different numbers for different situations.
 
I understand the explanation Rex gave to the point that it makes. This does not explain how the value of the parameter really changes the effect.

When you think of treble, you can understand the nature of the control in terms of frequency, Q, boost, cut, etc.. In this case, its like saying treble makes things bright or dark. 0=dark and 10=bright. Adjust to taste.

something tells me that's not all there is to it.

I respect the need to protect intellectual property, but its always annoying to be told to turn the knob until your happy. We all know how to turn our knobs don't we?:mrgreen Happy is subjective and changes from day to day. It has no real frame of reference like understanding what changes in a value represent.

I played around with the parameter and it seems to sound good and improve IR sound quality, but I can't really tell the difference between 1.35 or 6.54. My brain can't seem to differentiate any subtle changes in the parameter. if turning the knob in small increments doesn't do much, it would be nice to know. So far the 0-10 scale seems arbitrary to me.

Did i miss something earth shattering between 5.45 and 7.23 ???? I won't know unless I spend hours testing each value. That sort of thing.

The concept as a whole seems very cool and innovative as we've come to expect from Fractal. I did have a good jam with it last night. Seems to work. or does it???!!!:lol
 
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Read the release notes, ahh that's right, there isn't any, ahh that's right, this is a beta given specifically without any release note, *scratches head*

Number you have dialed is not in service or out of radio range, please check the number before dialing again
 
The out-of-phase signals you get when you close-mic a speaker cause comb filtering. Comb filtering is peaks and dips in the frequency response. The De-Phase parameter reduces those peaks and dips.

The zero-to-ten scale is arbitrary because there is no standard measure for phase-shift-induced comb filtering. It was either an arbitrary scale or no numbers at all, and who wants that? :)

The thing is, even if you know all theory, it still comes down to what sounds best to you. If you can't discern a difference between one setting and another, don't sweat it.
 
Its not a matter of sweating it. The Axe is packed full of arbitrary scales tied to features such as this.

It makes me feel like I'm missing out on what I don't understand. I'd be happy to learn if only there was a source in cases like this, but alas such features are mired in secrecy and protecting intellectual property. I can appreciate Fractal's need to protect there investments of course.

I've never been really happy with IR technology for my own use, so to see a possible improvement to this is quite an eye catcher. Enough for me to poke my head out and ask questions. That's on me.

your response is typical of what happens when I ask questions about mysterious magical Axe features with novel concepts behind them. Its ok that you don't know what the knob really does, no need for condescension. If the people who know wanted us to know, they'd tell us all about it.

I rarely ask questions about such features anymore, but this one got my attention. It does seem to help...
 
I'm not sure where you're coming from Stadanko. I laid out exactly what the knob does; it reduces the peaks and valleys in the frequency response if the IR. If you crank it up to 10, it will reduce those peaks and valleys a little too much for most people's tastes. Only you can decide how much is too much. And yes, my response really is typical of what happens when someone asks questions—you got a straight-up answer with no condescension. It's okay if you didn't understand my answer. Ask your next round of questions, and I'll answer as best I can.

If you really want to understand more, google "comb filter," and read up on how out-of-phase signals can cause it.
 
I played around with the parameter and it seems to sound good and improve IR sound quality, but I can't really tell the difference between 1.35 or 6.54. My brain can't seem to differentiate any subtle changes in the parameter. if turning the knob in small increments doesn't do much, it would be nice to know. So far the 0-10 scale seems arbitrary to me.

The thing is, that with this kind of effect, there are many variables involved. If the original IR does not contain high levels of comb filtering, then there won't be big changes as you move through the range. Just as you experienced.

If an IR has a heavy comb filter, then you will see a difference as you increase the value.

This is why it is hard to say because on one IR small increments will make a big difference, but on others it won't. There is no fixed rule.
 
no worries. I understand your meaning about the comb filtering and basic use of the knob. The complexity of whats really going on is what's puzzling. I know its more than anyone can simply explain because it probably enters the multi variable calculus realm in terms of mathematics. Multiple variables affecting each others rates of change that is.

You combine that with thousands of IRs and and a scale resolution of .01 and well......I appreciate that it seems to have a pleasing affect with little effort.

In this case, my limited grasp of the physics involved and lack of time to even dream of figuring this out on my own have me at a loss to push it any further. I'm learning how to build a tube amp for fun while building a music studio from the ground up and I'm not figuring that all out on my own. Time is short as it is, sooo...

Without Cliff himself going into more detail, the basic definitions here will have to do....
 
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It's an added capability that cost owners nothing. Necessary? Up to the user. I like it on 5 quite often; so I put it on 5 quite often. Jumping through intellectual debate about what it is, how it works, why it is necessary and so on isn't on my mind. Make things more inspiring to me as a player? Yes, on 5 quite often. So set it to 5, think about it, trust my ears and go from there. Recipe for happiness.
 
I don't have the time to analyze each IR to find which ones would benefit more or less from this new feature. I just start at 0 and then compare it to a setting of 5 and see which one I like better (x/y cabs help). If I like 5, then I might do the same thing comparing it to 2.5 or even 7.5. This kinda helps narrow it down fairly quickly. I'm usually set at x.0 or x.5 - I can't tell much difference in between.
 
What Scott said.

Through practice, my wife can manipulate a car's steering wheel to precisely navigate a turn, without any knowledge of how a steering wheel works. I know exactly how power steering works, but that knowledge doesn't help me steer a car.
 
Necessary? Probably not - lots of great sounds have come from the Axe before it got De-Phase, why even gear that existed before the Axe came out was capable of producing subjectively "good tone", in fact you may notice that the Axe has many incredibly accurate models of gear that existed prior to it! ;) But is it useful? Sure is! It's another tool to help improve your tone and ease the workflow and to help with dialing in what your mind's ear hears and get that to your physical ears. Nobody says you have to use it, but chances are you'll want to at least a bit hear and there.

Had a Palmer PGA05 stereo unit, was okay, kind of dark and dull, which was why it needed to blend back in the unfiltered tone, always thought the MicroCab II was much more versatile, but neither hold a candle to a good IR in ultrares, but they were (are) still useful and very much so in their time.
 
What Scott said.

Through practice, my wife can manipulate a car's steering wheel to precisely navigate a turn, without any knowledge of how a steering wheel works. I know exactly how power steering works, but that knowledge doesn't help me steer a car.

To be fair, it's pretty clear if after navigating the turn your wife has ended up in the wrong spot. I don't know many people that would argue that to their taste driving on the median or into oncoming traffic yields the best results. ;)
 
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To be fair, it's pretty clear if after navigating the turn your wife has ended up in the wrong spot. I don't know many people that would argue that to their taste driving on the median or into oncoming traffic yields the best results. ;)
That's true. Guitar tone is more forgiving of changes to the dial.
 
What Scott said.

Through practice, my wife can manipulate a car's steering wheel to precisely navigate a turn, without any knowledge of how a steering wheel works. I know exactly how power steering works, but that knowledge doesn't help me steer a car.


Well, actually, if knowledge of how steering works doesn't help you drive your car, you don't have knowledge. Or, to be more precise, you don't have enough relevant knowledge. 99% of people, including those who understand why wheels turn when they turn their steering wheel, have no idea what Kamm circle is and how to balance their cars in a turn by steering, accelerating and braking, or why it is even necessary. This lack of knowledge, multiplied by horrible habits taught in driving schools all around the world, the manufacturers' desire to exploit this reluctance to know things and to make money, manifested in abundance of front-wheel drive cars and SUVs, leads to damage, injuries and deaths every second.

So that's really a bad example.
 
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