Why I won't be using the cab block for recording any more

Hey guys.

First off, total respect for Fractal Audio and everything they're doing for the modeling community. I love my Axe-fx II and it makes recording a breeze for me. That said, the following pertains only to recording guitar direct. I doubt very much that anyone playing live would notice much of a difference at all due to changing circumstances, volume, etc. Also, this is just an opinion. And as such YMMV. So here it goes.

Up until very recently I was an ardent follower of UltraRes cabs and was perfectly happy being that way. But I was persuaded, after much haranguing, to try bypassing the cab block completely, and us long (500 ms) IRs in my DAW through an IR loader. "Fine. I'll try it."

So I run Logic Pro X, and there's a handy dandy little thing in there called "Space Designer" that can also load .wav file based IRs. I loaded in my go-to OH cab and started playing. I noticed pretty immediately that there were some significant differences. The lows and mids sounded richer and fuller. The highs sounded less papery and brash, and the overall balance and response seemed more natural. The definition of the cab resonance was better, and I could "feel" the amp and cab responding more than before. The thing that stuck out to me most though, was that at about 1000 hz on up, the UR cab tends to have this "crinkley" sound that sticks out, especially when multi-tracked. Upon layering of many guitars (particularly of the hard rock/metal variety), this zone tends to start to pile up and sound... well... digital. The long file is much more smooth through this region and helps to tame this zone, it seems.

Now, were these differences so striking that I think the cab block and UR technology is useless? I wouldn't go that far, no. But I will say that it was different enough that for important recordings I won't be using it any more. Also, my needs are simpler than some. Obviously this won't work for people who use complex post-cab effects. I am fairly simple in my post cab stuff and have access to long stereo files as well. I tend to run things similar to an amp and cab - effects loop going through to the cab, so since I have the ability to use stereo files I'm set.

I am now using MixIR2 which came with the RedWirez BigBox back when I bought it. Any IR loader will do, as long as it has the ability to load stereo files. Also, an added bonus. You no longer have to worry about running out of cab slots! :D
 
OwnHammer .wav files truncated to the proper length for conversion to UltraRes, loaded through Cab Lab into my Axe-fx as UR files.

For the record, the exact test was done using a the Mesa Modern Raw 03 file. I can't compare the factory cabs with another version of them, obviously, but when I switch between truncated files for the Axe-fx and back to the IR loader in DAW, there is a noticeable difference in how that curve is emphasized. I had noticed this behavior and so had others - referring to it as over-emphasis of crinkle, papery, harsh, etc. It's on every file that's truncated for the Axe-fx II, for absolute sure. It seems that as far as emphasis goes, the UR files are harsher than the standard files.

If you want to test it, grab a 500 ms .wav file from OH, load it into an IR loader. Record a riff (remember here I'm a heavy player so gain is really a must here) through the IR loaded into the DAW. Record another track but use the truncated UR-ready file of the same type, load it into the Axe fx and record the same riff. Now put a HP filter on your bus and go up to 1k. Listen between the two. Back and forth.

That information will be there. now compare it to factory IRs. You'll probably hear a similar thing. If you don't, I don't know what to say. It's very noticeable here.

This isn't to say that there aren't a ton of great recordings done in the traditional way with the AFX 2. There certainly are. It's just something I particularly noticed and have benefited from leaving behind. :encouragement:
 
I hear a slight difference as well. Although I'm not sure if it's due to the a/d conversion being before/after cab or wav files with more info. I'd assume the latter.
 
if this is an issue with converted wav files, then it's not an issue with Ultra Res at all :) it's due to the conversion process, i'd guess. FAS Ultra-Res don't seem to have this issue, or at least i haven't noticed it as i said earlier. i use recent Ownhammer cabs and they sound amazing - but i use them in normal res mode. i don't have the CPU available for Ultra-Res, and honestly don't "need" it.
 
In a detail critical recording environment, to get the full decay of sound bouncing around just inside the cab you need a minimum of 80 ms in past listening tests I've done. 40 ms for HR and 20 ms for UR/LR won't catch all of it, but this is beyond fine for live purposes, where the Axe is truly a gift to players in all that it does. :) I also am not fond of recording with the Cab Block both for sound quality as well as mixing decision alteration purposes, and agree with the OP that if you are recording, and not playing live, I don't know why in the world you would use the Cab Block unless you desperately need one of the alternate functions other than just IR loading or your workflow or other equipment capabilities require that you record the full signal (e.g. laying down quick pre-production tracks, don't own a convolution reverb plugin or know how to use it, etc).

I *think*, not sure as this is guessing and not based on any analysis of yet, that Cab Lab 3 allows 170 ms of data if you load the .ir files. I was playing around with the Plugin version (and now use the Standalone for batch conversion), the guys did an amazing job with this, and the bundle is something I think everyone should pick up! This may not give the full monty, but if I am right about the tail length capability will allow a better representation of the IR's that are not offered in .wav format. Add that the mixer interface is fantastic, option packed, and very convenient.
 
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2 and 4 sound a little more "papery". i'm guessing they're the ultrares. the fact that i couldn't hear any difference in my test is interesting. i didn't convert the wav file myself....i just used the syx file that ownhammer provided
 
I can't hear the difference :(
+1. But to that I would say: :) instead of :(

After joining this forum I've realized my ears are crap
LOL. Agreed. The forumites can be a very Type A lot as well which makes it worse. Look at all the spazzy questions second guessing when G3 amps are coming, specific parameter default changes from FW update to FW update, A/B amp versus modeler clips, asks regarding specific amp controls/cap values/model numbers etc.

It can be hard to simply abide sometimes.
 
hmmm...after jumping back and forth, i can't say i hear a difference either. i must have been fooling myself before. i doubt any difference (if there is one) could be heard on a soundcloud file anyway
 
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