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Why don't they just make some amps?

Chris Hurley

Experienced
The moment you plug your modeler into a poweramp and single cab you have just made it pointless to have 300 amp models. The different cabs, speaker models etc are huge part of why those amp models sound the way they do. Just try keeping the same IR and rolling through the amp models and you will find they don't sound the same but they do exhibit a lot more similarities.
Tons of great tones can be had with a single cab. This notion that "without frfr you might as well not even bother" just needs to die because it's not true and it's never been true.

Do you need 300? Maybe not but you don't need 300 with frfr either. The reason to have 300 is that my 5 might be different from your 5. I certainly can hear a big difference with my 5 using a guitar cab.

It's not even close to being pointless.
 
Um, no. I'm not talking about Fractal making an amp in the $200-300 range. It would still be ~$1000.00-$1500.00~ or so, presumably. I

Think about this: the FM3 and FM9 already have headphone jacks. This would just add a power section and speakers to make it a combo.

1000-1500? So you're saying, not only sell the tech of the FM9 base unit, but add in a quality power amp, and a quality speaker, commit yourself to warranty on these items and increase your stocking levels for all the new components, and then somehow sell it all for less than the current retail of 1599 on the FM9 by itself. Maybe this is why they don't do it.
 

Sixstring

Legend!
Both JHS and Wampler did their own amp to be the perfect pedal platform for their line of pedals.
I think Cliff knows best, and there is a glut on the marketplace. Servicing and warranty for a line
of amps like that can make it a net loss unless you have massive volume.
Yeah just like the glut of Floor boards... almost as many of those out there as there are stars in the sky, yet FAS built a few anyway. I think the point that's trying to be made is that there is a market for it! just like there is a market for $6,000 PRS and Suhr guitars! If a quality product from FAS is built it would sell.

1000-1500? So you're saying, not only sell the tech of the FM9 base unit, but add in a quality power amp, and a quality speaker, commit yourself to warranty on these items and increase your stocking levels for all the new components, and then somehow sell it all for less than the current retail of 1599 on the FM9 by itself. Maybe this is why they don't do it.
There's no way that would happen at that price point not with a quality piece. A well built SS 300 watt combo unit that has the functionality of the FM9 would be retailing somewhere in the 3k price range. I would think it would be aimed at the boutique amp marketplace.
 

la szum

Fractal Fanatic
I think the point that's trying to be made is that there is a market for it!

Seems someone with all the clout disagrees.

It probably would sell, but would it be at a margin and volume that would make the
endeavour worth it?

You also have startup costs to recoup on those margins. Not as easy as to pull off as
creating a wishful thinking thread, or replying in that thread. :)
 

PowerTube

Member
Tonally, it is on par with Behringer's "modeling" that they stole from somewhere
and repackaged.
I hate Behringer gear in general. Back in the mid-2000's, I really wanted a Line 6 POD 2.0. Well, Behringer had the competing V-Amp. The POD retailed for $249.00 while the V-Amp was only $149.00 and also included a carrying case. Since the wife and I were struggling financially at the time, I REALLY wanted to love the V-Amp for the price difference.

But when I compared them side-by-side at Guitar Center, there was no comparison. The V-Amp just didn't have the magic of the POD, so I held out for a while and got the POD.

To this day, I still love the original Line 6 Modern Hi-Gain setting. They discontinued it and I think that's a tragedy.
 

PowerTube

Member
Seems someone with all the clout disagrees.

It probably would sell, but would it be at a margin and volume that would make the
endeavour worth it?

You also have startup costs to recoup on those margins. Not as easy as to pull off as
creating a wishful thinking thread, or replying in that thread. :)
I was just speculating when I started the thread. I really don't know the ins and outs of the market, so I have no basis for any real argument.

Mainly, I just love to photoshop.

:cool:
 

DougB415

Experienced
Um, no. I'm not talking about Fractal making an amp in the $200-300 range. It would still be ~$1000.00-$1500.00~ or so, presumably. I'm talking strictly about size and form factor here. It could be the size of the Spark or maybe the Yamaha THX series, and maybe have 20-50 watts output power. But when you hook it to the PA or power amp/monitor rig of your choice, it behaves like the current FM3 or FM9.

Think about this: the FM3 and FM9 already have headphone jacks. This would just add a power section and speakers to make it a combo.
No, because you don't have the footswitches of the FM3 and FM9 in a combo. So now you'd have to get an FC-6 or FC-12 as well.
 

Sixstring

Legend!
Seems someone with all the clout disagrees.

It probably would sell, but would it be at a margin and volume that would make the
endeavour worth it?

You also have startup costs to recoup on those margins. Not as easy as to pull off as
creating a wishful thinking thread, or replying in that thread. :)
Cliff has been known to change his mind so that said nothing is ever really off the table.

Margins are what they are and if the product is as good as all of the others the list would be long enough, as to whether or not it would be worth it only FAS would know! Is the Axe FX III worth it is the FM 3 and 9... I haven't a clue I know that they sell.

Of course it's not as easy, the same could have been said when the whole FAS endeavor started and we all see how that turned out. How many rack mount units were on the market at the time? It's just an idea and I'm well aware that it's ultimately up to him.

Aside from everything that's been posted, It still doesn't change the fact that I would much rather see a cool new product form FAS rather than another parameter, amp, or effect on the menu to drill into.
 

PowerTube

Member
Right. So a chopped down FM9 (no switches) maybe $1100, power amp another $500, speaker + enclosure, etc another $400, FC-6 another $550. Total $2550, and that's for a mono combo. Add another $900 for a second powered cab for stereo and you're at $3450. Oops, make that $3449.99 ;)
Hey, I was only off by about $1500.00. Maybe I should work for government accounting.

:cool:
 

Andy Eagle

Fractal Fanatic
Dedicated powered FR FR cabs from fractal with software support in the axe would be a no brainer and sell to at least half fractal users.
Cliff could then produce "amp in the room" patches and setting for those that wanted that and we could all hear each others settings with the expectation that they would translate. Third party patches would even sound as they were written. I see no justification for not making these and it would not effect the existing product beyond a firmware update. They could even produce a head shell case with a power conditioner built in to power the whole system mono or stereo. This would have no negative effect on how anyone uses the existing hardware as they wouldn't need to change.
 

PowerTube

Member
Dedicated powered FR FR cabs from fractal with software support in the axe would be a no brainer and sell to at least half fractal users.
Cliff could then produce "amp in the room" patches and setting for those that wanted that and we could all hear each others settings with the expectation that they would translate. Third party patches would even sound as they were written. I see no justification for not making these and it would not effect the existing product beyond a firmware update. They could even produce a head shell case with a power conditioner built in to power the whole system mono or stereo. This would have no negative effect on how anyone uses the existing hardware as they wouldn't need to change.
This. I've played guitar for many years, and I love the sounds I hear from the video demos of the fractal. But when I see a bazillion options for monitors, power amps, and so on, it appears like a daunting task to get the sound I want. Some even say that the 4CM method across my Marshall won't sound that good.

If I could very simply just BUY AN AMP that will give me what I hear in the videos, I would be interested. Yes, I know, different pickups, different body woods, single-coil vs humbucker, blah blah blah. Come on, if I'm using a similar guitar, it isn't going to sound that radically different. But if I use the "wrong" power amp or especially speakers, it WILL sound radically different.

I've spent many, many hours tweaking on a Boss GT-100, and Line 6 gear before that, and some others. I don't fear technology or learning new things. But why not keep it simple?

1. I hear a patch I like.
2. I download it and plug it in.
3. It actually sounds like what I heard.

Let's say they offer a small 40-watt combo. If I see a video of a patch being played on the same combo and recorded with a mic and not direct, I don't think it's a stretch to expect it to sound about the same on my identical combo.

I still think this would sell.
 
Tiny profit margin. Crappy supply chain. Lots of competition. Fractal is unlikely to improve on what is already out there. Would it be as good as something that’s out there but with a fractal logo on it? Yes.
 
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DougB415

Experienced
If I could very simply just BUY AN AMP that will give me what I hear in the videos, I would be interested.

Let's say they offer a small 40-watt combo. If I see a video of a patch being played on the same combo and recorded with a mic and not direct, I don't think it's a stretch to expect it to sound about the same on my identical combo.
What you hear in the videos is usually recorded direct. And if it is recorded with a mic, what mic was used, what pre-amp, etc? How much did that affect the recording? There are so many variables.

A 40 watt SS amp? My wife has one and it would get obliterated in a band setup.
 

PowerTube

Member
What you hear in the videos is usually recorded direct. And if it is recorded with a mic, what mic was used, what pre-amp, etc? How much did that affect the recording? There are so many variables.

A 40 watt SS amp? My wife has one and it would get obliterated in a band setup.
I understand what you're saying, but most amp videos are pretty true to what I hear when I play that amp in real life.

A 40-watt SS amp isn't for live performance. That's why you cable it out to the PA.
 

Andy Eagle

Fractal Fanatic
Tiny profit margin. Crappy supply chain. Lots of competition. Fractal is unlikely to improve on what is already out there. Would it be as good as something that’s out there but with a fractal logo on it? Yes.
But the dedicated software possibilities would make it different. There are plenty of other modellers and fractal didn't come up with this solution so this is a bad reason not to make a dedicated FR FR.
 
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