Why does the Looper change the tone of the direct sound of the guitar?

H

Horganovski

Experienced
Bit of a weird one, or possibly pilot error.

I've been using the Looper block in some patches, set as the last block in the chain and I have a couple of pedals set up, one to record/stop and the other, an expression pedal to control the mix value of the looper so that I can mix the loops with the direct sound of the guitar with my foot while playing. I've set up the expression pedal so that fully back is 0% mix and fully forward is 50%, which I assume should mean an even amount of volume for the loops and the direct sound of the guitar. I notice however if I'm just playing the guitar without using the loop and I push the pedal forward the volume of the guitar gets quieter. Why is this? Is there a way to compensate for it? I've tried adjusting the 'Level' of the looper block but that affects the volume disregarding the setting of the mix parameter.

A bug possibly? I would have thought just having a looper mixed in, if it's not generating any sound (ie no loops are playing) shouldn't affect the direct sound of the guitar.
OR is there a different way I should be controlling the level of the loops? (I want to be able to do it on the fly as part of a performance).

Using 15.07 here, Axe FX II XL
 
Try to put the looper on another line, not passing direct sound. Are you using a mono looper ? If it is in mono and playing back stereo effects the sound will change
 
this was talked before in the forum. it doesnt really change your tone, it sucks out some volume. i think some where around 2-3 dB...ofcourse if the looper is before your amp block
that will change also your tone...anyways, if turning up the level of looper doesnt work for you i think the other and also the only option is to put the looper in parallel block and mute the dry out...
actually i just repeated the same stuff you and fremen wrote...but maybe it still helps :)
 
Thanks guys, it's a weird limitation though, no? I would have thought a digital looper should have no effect on the dry signal? I get that a physical pedal version will due to extra cabling (I have a Boss floor unit that does this and I avoid using it for that reason, I hoped the Axe wouldn't have the same problem) but why a digital one?

To clarify I am using it in Stereo.

If I understand correctly - you are suggesting that instead of connecting the last block before the looper to the looper and then the looper to output I should connect that straight to the output and run the looper in parallel instead? Or should I use a mixer and connect the footswitch to the level of the mixer instead?
 
Horganovski said:
Thanks guys, it's a weird limitation though, no? I would have thought a digital looper should have no effect on the dry signal? I get that a physical pedal version will due to extra cabling (I have a Boss floor unit that does this and I avoid using it for that reason, I hoped the Axe wouldn't have the same problem) but why a digital one?

To clarify I am using it in Stereo.

If I understand correctly - you are suggesting that instead of connecting the last block before the looper to the looper and then the looper to output I should connect that straight to the output and run the looper in parallel instead? Or should I use a mixer and connect the footswitch to the level of the mixer instead?
Click to expand...

It is due to how the mix works. It is the relative volume of dry and wet. A you increase the mix , you are decreasing the guitar level and increasing the loop level.
Run it in parallel, set mix to 100% and control the loop level with the level parameter.

This is an effects that could really use separate wet/dry levels in the block.
 
Any chance tossing a Volume block in after the looper and tie it's level control to the same expression pedal could help keep a relative balance? Just got up so forgive me if my cobwebs haven't yet cleared, and this makes no sense. ;) Good luck!
 
is9582 said:
Any chance tossing a Volume block in after the looper and tie it's level control to the same expression pedal could help keep a relative balance? Just got up so forgive me if my cobwebs haven't yet cleared, and this makes no sense. ;) Good luck!
Click to expand...

It would change the relative volume because it is still being mixed. Parallel routing w/ 100 mix solves the issue.
 
Semih Yanyali said:
this was talked before in the forum. it doesnt really change your tone, it sucks out some volume. i think some where around 2-3 dB...ofcourse if the looper is before your amp block
that will change also your tone...anyways, if turning up the level of looper doesnt work for you i think the other and also the only option is to put the looper in parallel block and mute the dry out...
actually i just repeated the same stuff you and fremen wrote...but maybe it still helps :)
Click to expand...

When routed in serier, the volume drop between bypass and on is 3db at 50% mix
 
javajunkie said:
It is due to how the mix works. It is the relative volume of dry and wet. A you increase the mix , you are decreasing the guitar level and increasing the loop level.
Run it in parallel, set mix to 100% and control the loop level with the level parameter.

This is an effects that could really use separate wet/dry levels in the block.
Click to expand...

Thanks that clarifies it for me and yes I agree, it would be simpler if it had wet/dry levels. I can work with the parallel method though.

Thanks for your help guys, off to tweak some patches and get looping :)
 
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