Why do people criticize guitar covers or band covers?

[Bman]

When I go to see @bishop5150 's Ozzy tribute band, I enjoy the spot on replication. I love watching tribute bands that put a lot into getting it right. But in any other cover band, I like both, a mix of accuracy and the embellishments, especially when the embellishment is an original take on the song. I love Van Halen's cover of Linda Ronstadt's "You're No Good". It sounds nothing like the original. And I love the original too.

 

[Genghis]

When I go to see @bishop5150 's Ozzy tribute band, I enjoy the spot on replication. I love watching tribute bands that put a lot into getting it right. But in any other cover band, I like both, a mix of accuracy and the embellishments, especially when the embellishment is an original take on the song. I love Van Halen's cover of Linda Ronstadt's "You're No Good". It sounds nothing like the original. And I love the original too.

I like that myself. We would nail the Metallica stuff, but did songs like Hooked on a Feeling and other old classics with our own spin. It definitely had a more rock vibe than the original, and I had our other backing vocalist do the ooga-chuka parts through a vocoder for something different. It was fairly well recieved, but it surprised me to see how many people actually danced to Metallica's Escape. Not something I thought of as a dance song, but hey, if it gets people moving, that's what matters. I was alsona bit surprised that some of the heavier originals went over as well as they do in this area, which is has a much more small-town country music type of crowd.

 

[JoKeR III]

The only rub for me is when the embellishment or solo takes away from the song. When it's obvious that it's a "hey look at me" moment or "check out the lick I learned last week", the meaning and sentiment of the original song is lost. Solos and embellishments can enjoyable when keeping the original vibe alive. Case in point are the guitar solos in Martin Miller's band cover of Purple Rain. They sound and feel as though they could very well be part of the original song.

As far as my personal approach, I like to serve the song. I didn't write the it so anything I do needs to respect and serve the original idea and feel. Anything else in my opinion is basically saying to the original artist "you did it wrong, here's how it's supposed to go".

 

[Muad'zin]

when i watch a cover - full band, solo instrument, singing, whatever - i just like to see an understanding of the music they're playing.

there are several types of covers, and i think each one needs to be addressed individually.

those "covers" that sing the lyrics and melody over a stock I vi VI V that has nothing to do with the song usually make me mad as there was no attempt to learn the song at all. (sometimes these are done on purpose and work!).

it also matters if the person says specifically "this is note for note!" when it's not, i wonder if they actually think they're playing it note for note, or if they just say it so people think it is. many times people think they are hitting everything, when they actually aren't, and i think it's a disservice to any performer to just say "good job" and not let them know they aren't actually doing what they think they're doing. i've seen covers of meshuggah songs on drums, and they're really not hitting things and clearly have no understanding of the odd times. props for trying it of course, but i mean if you're not doing it, you're not doing it. and that should be shared with the person i feel, not in a threatening way of course. but the moment you do that, people start asking for proof that YOU can play it, etc etc... it's tiresome. so i rarely comment. people can post whatever they want, but they should know they open themselves up to comments and discussion about what they presented.

then there are re-interpreted covers that change things purposefully - sometimes small changes, sometimes major. i enjoy these the most and usually how i approach covers too. music is open for interpretation and i enjoy the creativity realized when having a starting point of a song that already exists. it's puzzling to me to see people say "you're not allowed to change that chord/note." however, sometimes the change is not a good choice or even technically bad/wrong, and those probably come from inexperience. so those i can't agree with.

Reimagining old classics has always been a staple of music. It's basically all classical musicians do. In blues its pretty much standard to reimagine blues traditionals. Chances are some blues band starts a slow blues it's usually a cover. I enjoy a good reimagined cover, I actually prefer them over well done note for note covers, unless its a tribute band. And I think the biggest hurdle to overcome is too much love for the original song, making you want to retain too much of the meat of the song when what you should do is strip it down to the bare bones, and then rebuild it again. Still a good note for note of a really hard to play song is awesome too. The Sum 41 cover of Master of Puppets is pretty much note for note and that does impress me. Because I know how hard to play that song is.

again for me, it's about the understanding of the song. to not play a m7b5 chord in a song that uses and needs it because you don't know that chord exists is one thing - we all need to learn bit by bit, and playing a minor chord there instead doesn't sound quite right. but i can usually see that maybe the person doesn't know how to play that chord and typically excuse it. but if someone replaces that m7b5 chord with like a II7 or something that doesn't fit at all... yeah that's rough. i would view that as not understanding the song, and maybe it shouldn't be performed until you take the time to get the right chord.

if i see someone who isn't a "shredder" but their band on a weekend gig plays a song with a shreddy solo, but plays something slower that they can actually play, i wouldn't think "omg this guy sucks!" i would appreciate what they can perform and move on in life. i'm pretty sure they would love to play it as recorded, and are probably working on it week after week until they feel comfortable enough to try it.

That would annoy the shit out of me. If you don't have the chops, then don't play songs like that. It will only make you look bad. As Clint Eastwood said, a man's got to know his limitation and as a musician once told me, you should always play music that's just underneath your skill level, that way you can always give a little extra when needed. Playing above your level, never good.

so many casual listeners have no idea how much work it takes to become good at an instrument, and think because we have a guitar, we can immediately do anything the guitar gods can, and if we can't, we suck. that's why i try to assess what the musician is capable of in general, and appreciate it for what they give to the listeners. clearly some people are just bad musicians and truly need to practice more, but i'd rather see an honest performance of them giving their energy to the room vs a note-perfect performance that i could get by listening to the recording.

I know how hard it is to master an instrument and how the hardest thing is to find your own voice and skill level on that instrument. I'm also a zumba instructor and in our training we were given the zumba formula as Z=MC2. Zumba = Music, Core Steps, Choreography. I think a similar formula can be made for live performances as well. L=ES3. Live shows = Energy, Stage Presence, Songs, Skill. And with the zumba formula you can alternate how much of each element you add into the formula. You can compensate for lack of skill and good songs with energy and stage presence. That's basically every U2 live show until they finally scored some big hits. Or you can compensate for energy and stage presence with great songs and awesome skill. Basically what older musicians with a massive hits catalog do.

Still, in the end, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. If you don't have the skills to handle a difficult song, pick a different song more suitable to your skill level. The world is full of awesome simple songs that get audiences energized. A man's got to know his limitations so he can work with them instead of against him.

Actually, my full time job has allowed me to equip a decent studio and buy some decent equipment that I would not have been able to afford if I forged ahead playing shitty covers for peanuts for drunks in a bar, and I actually enjoy the work I do. Not as much as I enjoy writing and playing original music, maybe almost as much as I enjoy playing crappy covers, but definitely a lot more enjoyable than loading up a shit ton of gear and setting it up to play for a bar gig. And not having to worry about some drunk spilling beer in your FC12 is priceless!

I KNEW someone like you would chime in. There's always the exception to the rule. This is why I said almost every time. I covered my ass.

I can respect that playing covers in a bar is enjoyable for some, and that some are even able to make a decent living at it. I figured out in 1989 that music doesn't pay much for most musicians and decided I would rather make a living doing other things and play what I want to play.

Fwiw, a lot of people do enjoy it when I play out, and even the covers that are rearranged tend to go over pretty well. I have just become a lot more selective about what I choose to do, and I have better things to do than meticulously figure out someone else's guitar solo note for note to try to impress the 3 guitarists in the room that can actually tell the difference. If that is what floats your boat, so be it. More power to you, but I enjoy being in the minority in this one.

I think its good you enjoy doing your job that allows you to do what you want. You are truly a blessed man. Please keep in mind that not everybody has that job fulfillment and that some would rather spend hours figuring out someone else's solo note for note then keep some pointy haired boss happy as an office, factory, retail or fastfood drone.

When I go to see @bishop5150 's Ozzy tribute band, I enjoy the spot on replication. I love watching tribute bands that put a lot into getting it right. But in any other cover band, I like both, a mix of accuracy and the embellishments, especially when the embellishment is an original take on the song. I love Van Halen's cover of Linda Ronstadt's "You're No Good". It sounds nothing like the original. And I love the original too.

Yeah, but you're always going to get compared to the original. This goes for the tributes, for the original takers, the party cover bands and the newbies playing mostly for friends and family. Its just that the bar on which you will be judged is different in every case. Tributes will be judged on how well they clone the original. originals will be judged on what they did differently, party bands on how well they can make a venue dance and sweat, and the newbies will get applause from their friends and families no matter what. Which probably sucks the most for them, as they will probably be the ones who are in need of honest criticism the most to progress.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

some would rather spend hours figuring out someone else's solo note for note then keep some pointy haired boss happy as an office, factory, retail or fastfood drone.

LOL at 'pointy haired boss'.

I would rather have spent time working on music than 'stay in college and get a real job', but reality and one's wishes rarely intersect, it seems. If you expect any more from life than to walk on a treadmill for everyone else's welfare and happiness but your own, you're walking the road to eternal disappointment....

 

[Genghis]

Reimagining old classics has always been a staple of music. It's basically all classical musicians do. In blues its pretty much standard to reimagine blues traditionals. Chances are some blues band starts a slow blues it's usually a cover. I enjoy a good reimagined cover, I actually prefer them over well done note for note covers, unless its a tribute band. And I think the biggest hurdle to overcome is too much love for the original song, making you want to retain too much of the meat of the song when what you should do is strip it down to the bare bones, and then rebuild it again. Still a good note for note of a really hard to play song is awesome too. The Sum 41 cover of Master of Puppets is pretty much note for note and that does impress me. Because I know how hard to play that song is.



That would annoy the shit out of me. If you don't have the chops, then don't play songs like that. It will only make you look bad. As Clint Eastwood said, a man's got to know his limitation and as a musician once told me, you should always play music that's just underneath your skill level, that way you can always give a little extra when needed. Playing above your level, never good.



I know how hard it is to master an instrument and how the hardest thing is to find your own voice and skill level on that instrument. I'm also a zumba instructor and in our training we were given the zumba formula as Z=MC2. Zumba = Music, Core Steps, Choreography. I think a similar formula can be made for live performances as well. L=ES3. Live shows = Energy, Stage Presence, Songs, Skill. And with the zumba formula you can alternate how much of each element you add into the formula. You can compensate for lack of skill and good songs with energy and stage presence. That's basically every U2 live show until they finally scored some big hits. Or you can compensate for energy and stage presence with great songs and awesome skill. Basically what older musicians with a massive hits catalog do.

Still, in the end, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. If you don't have the skills to handle a difficult song, pick a different song more suitable to your skill level. The world is full of awesome simple songs that get audiences energized. A man's got to know his limitations so he can work with them instead of against him.



I KNEW someone like you would chime in. There's always the exception to the rule. This is why I said almost every time. I covered my ass.



I think its good you enjoy doing your job that allows you to do what you want. You are truly a blessed man. Please keep in mind that not everybody has that job fulfillment and that some would rather spend hours figuring out someone else's solo note for note then keep some pointy haired boss happy as an office, factory, retail or fastfood drone.


Yeah, but you're always going to get compared to the original. This goes for the tributes, for the original takers, the party cover bands and the newbies playing mostly for friends and family. Its just that the bar on which you will be judged is different in every case. Tributes will be judged on how well they clone the original. originals will be judged on what they did differently, party bands on how well they can make a venue dance and sweat, and the newbies will get applause from their friends and families no matter what. Which probably sucks the most for them, as they will probably be the ones who are in need of honest criticism the most to progress.

I am lucky to have gone the route I went, but that was spawned from moving to Southern Cal to check out the music scene in the mid 80s. It was a choice I made because of my experience with the flustercluck known as the 80s LA metal scene. As much as I love playing I hated everything else about that hellhole, and can completely relate to the song Aenima.

My band do fairly well in the Orange County scene, but when it comes down to it, that whole scene was an absolute joke and I pretty much despised everything besides playing. I remember the ads in the local trade magazines looking for "long hair and image, tattoos, cherk bones". I don't recall a single ad looking for anything like talent or originality. I posted an ad myself many years later that said "must be over 40, have a real job, and not eant to sound like Blink 311." Found a killer bass player that answered because of my smart@$$ ad, and he is still a great friend I love to chat music with even though I finally escaped the jungle a few years ago.

 

[Muad'zin]

LOL at 'pointy haired boss'.

I would rather have spent time working on music than 'stay in college and get a real job', but reality and one's wishes rarely intersect, it seems. If you expect any more from life than to walk on a treadmill for everyone else's welfare and happiness but your own, you're walking the road to eternal disappointment....

Thing is, that is what they kept telling us when we were kids and what they keep on telling our own kids. Put aside that thing you love, cause there is no money in it. Instead take up that thing you don't like cause it will make money. And then magically you will become happy. Except not. At best it will give you some spare money to maintain to do that thing you really love as a hobby. Time permitting of course. Sure, some people will be lucky to have actual fulfilling careers, or made some very good choices to end up like that, good for them, but most of us will end up working for some pointy haired boss., And all that time spend working and commuting is time that could have spent on making music.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Thing is, that is what they kept telling us when we were kids and what they keep on telling our own kids. Put aside that thing you love, cause there is no money in it. Instead take up that thing you don't like cause it will make money. And then magically you will become happy. Except not. At best it will give you some spare money to maintain to do that thing you really love as a hobby. Time permitting of course. Sure, some people will be lucky to have actual fulfilling careers, or made some very good choices to end up like that, good for them, but most of us will end up working for some pointy haired boss., And all that time spend working and commuting is time that could have spent on making music.

Then you hit the mid 50s, the 'check engine light' is solid on, and you spend the remainder of your life's spare time at doctors' offices and wishing you'd spent your life doing what you loved instead of what you did....

 

[seclusion]

I give credit to the band that does a replica of a song almost exact. That’s a level of perfection I know I can’t do. Sound wise there are many song that the sound of the guitar or solo sounds like hoop to me. When I play a cover tune I enjoy putting a spin on it, but at times other band members don’t. Can’t win, but have to work at what you do best.

 

[Genghis]

Thing is, that is what they kept telling us when we were kids and what they keep on telling our own kids. Put aside that thing you love, cause there is no money in it. Instead take up that thing you don't like cause it will make money. And then magically you will become happy. Except not. At best it will give you some spare money to maintain to do that thing you really love as a hobby. Time permitting of course. Sure, some people will be lucky to have actual fulfilling careers, or made some very good choices to end up like that, good for them, but most of us will end up working for some pointy haired boss., And all that time spend working and commuting is time that could have spent on making music.

I have been lucky with my day gig, and I have still set aside enough time to do a shit ton of writing and recording, not to mention it allowed the finances to get me a decent studio and some of the other things that make music making worthwhile for me.

My boss is not pointy headed. He is bald guy from New Jersery who looks and talks like a New Jersey gangster. He intimidates a lot of people, but those of us on his team know what a great guy he is. I don't really want to comment much on the state of corporate 'Murica as you go further up the food chain though. Some of them are so good at double-talking and stringing together buzzwords that they don't understand I think they should have gotten into politics.

This is a bit more off topic, but I am actually getting started on a new project that I'm pretty stoked about. A young woman who is an amazing singer-songwriter just moved back into town when COVID hit. She has been living in the Amazon learning some very interesting things from the natives there, and as I found out last night, her studies have taken her all over the world. She wants to do a very diverse album that modernizes many of those influences, and I have the place to do it, and the musical diversity that I think can help fine tune the vision. I also met another young lady here that has an amazing voice with a range that fits right in between my range and her range. Just getting started with this, but I have a feeling this one is going to be a blast and these two are not tied to one narrow style the way most of the musicians I have worked with are. Just getting started, but I'm actually starting to get as stoked about this as I was about music when I was in my late teens and early twenties.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I have been lucky with my day gig, and I have still set aside enough time to do a shit ton of writing and recording, not to mention it allowed the finances to get me a decent studio and some of the other things that make music making worthwhile for me.

I only recently (5 years ago) finally got into a decent day job, and am still digging out of the hole that college put me in, on a lot of fronts. Had lots of pointy haired bosses.

My boss is not pointy headed. He is bald guy from New Jersery who looks and talks like a New Jersey gangster. He intimidates a lot of people, but those of us on his team know what a great guy he is. I don't really want to comment much on the state of corporate 'Murica as you go further up the food chain though. Some of them are so good at double-talking and stringing together buzzwords that they don't understand I think they should have gotten into politics.

Jersey folk are good, for the most part. I grew up there, in the shadow of the Hindenburg, about 2 miles from where Snookie bought her house. There is a road in Bricktown with my family's name on it. I occasionally put on the accent for humorous purposes....

This is a bit more off topic, but I am actually getting started on a new project that I'm pretty stoked about. A young woman who is an amazing singer-songwriter just moved back into town when COVID hit. She has been living in the Amazon learning some very interesting things from the natives there, and as I found out last night, her studies have taken her all over the world. She wants to do a very diverse album that modernizes many of those influences, and I have the place to do it, and the musical diversity that I think can help fine tune the vision. I also met another young lady here that has an amazing voice with a range that fits right in between my range and her range. Just getting started with this, but I have a feeling this one is going to be a blast and these two are not tied to one narrow style the way most of the musicians I have worked with are. Just getting started, but I'm actually starting to get as stoked about this as I was about music when I was in my late teens and early twenties.

Sounds like fun. I might have some recording with an old bandmate coming up. It's something to look forward to while on the treadmill....

 

[BaronVonGrim]

I appreciate every live performance I see from any cover band.
Not listening to too many cover tunes on the radio generally. There are a few great ones.
If I see the original band live, and they improvise a solo, then I'm not happy about it.
Cover bands guitar solos, I compare them to the original, if they nail it... I'm pleased to have heard it.

 

[Muad'zin]

Then you hit the mid 50s, the 'check engine light' is solid on, and you spend the remainder of your life's spare time at doctors' offices and wishing you'd spent your life doing what you loved instead of what you did....

My check engine light is thankfully doing fine. It's just that I feel that I've finally managed to pierce the bullshit veil and be dropping truth bombs while everybody looks at me like I'm a crazy old coot. So now I know how crazy old coots feel. It is true what they say. Youth is wasted on the young, for they are too stupid to make good use of it, and wisdom is wasted on the old, for they lack the strength to use it wisely. Not to mention they are looked upon as crazy old coots when they try to impart some of their wisdom.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

My check engine light is thankfully doing fine. It's just that I feel that I've finally managed to pierce the bullshit veil and be dropping truth bombs while everybody looks at me like I'm a crazy old coot. So now I know how crazy old coots feel. It is true what they say. Youth is wasted on the young, for they are too stupid to make good use of it, and wisdom is wasted on the old, for they lack the strength to use it wisely. Not to mention they are looked upon as crazy old coots when they try to impart some of their wisdom.

This statement ^^^^ is accurate beyond any possible argument. Just wait, kids, you'll find out....

 

[Muad'zin]

This statement ^^^^ is accurate beyond any possible argument. Just wait, kids, you'll find out....

Not to mention that however progressive you think you are today, your kids will look at you as some racist sexist anachronistic relic from the past tomorrow. Karma's truly a bitch!

 

[BaronVonGrim]

My check engine light is thankfully doing fine. It's just that I feel that I've finally managed to pierce the bullshit veil and be dropping truth bombs while everybody looks at me like I'm a crazy old coot. So now I know how crazy old coots feel. It is true what they say. Youth is wasted on the young, for they are too stupid to make good use of it, and wisdom is wasted on the old, for they lack the strength to use it wisely. Not to mention they are looked upon as crazy old coots when they try to impart some of their wisdom.

Older and bolder.

 

[CraigP]

People criticize everything

 

[spagthorpe]

Lots of feelings reading through these posts.

If I'm going to see a tribute band, then I'd expect a very close/exact reproduction. The thing is, even the original bands don't always play the songs like they do on the album. Hell, it might not even be possible because of the studio magic that went in to the album, or the band members are just old now...

I used to go to bars that had regular cover bands, and I've seen a ton. Everything from 80s pop specific bands, that do 100% perfect songs, singer's accents, everything. To general play whatever gets people on the dance floor bands, and as long as it's close, it's good. Drowning Pool's - Bodies can be a little off, or Play that Funky Music. People are drinking, dancing, having a good time. Even just the skill level of the band might not be the best, but it's close enough and the fact that the band comes back regularly means I don't think the owner or patrons are complaining.

But, people will complain about anything, and the internet has in many cases, given them the anonymity to say things that they never would in person. It's the perfect forum for assholes, and they have have no problem letting you know they are out there.

 

[Genghis]

Lots of feelings reading through these posts.

If I'm going to see a tribute band, then I'd expect a very close/exact reproduction. The thing is, even the original bands don't always play the songs like they do on the album. Hell, it might not even be possible because of the studio magic that went in to the album, or the band members are just old now...

I used to go to bars that had regular cover bands, and I've seen a ton. Everything from 80s pop specific bands, that do 100% perfect songs, singer's accents, everything. To general play whatever gets people on the dance floor bands, and as long as it's close, it's good. Drowning Pool's - Bodies can be a little off, or Play that Funky Music. People are drinking, dancing, having a good time. Even just the skill level of the band might not be the best, but it's close enough and the fact that the band comes back regularly means I don't think the owner or patrons are complaining.

But, people will complain about anything, and the internet has in many cases, given them the anonymity to say things that they never would in person. It's the perfect forum for assholes, and they have have no problem letting you know they are out there.

Very well put. I always figure the point of a bar band is to get people dancing and having fun and sell drinks. Their job is not to impress the handfull of musicians that are out there picking apart the performance. That attitude is what bothers me about musicians, and I don't claim to be immune to it, but I do make an effort to turn off the musical criticism part of the brain when I see other bands play and just try to enjoy it for what it is. Then again it is impossible to do that with my own music. Lol like many of us, I tend to be my own worst critic.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

People criticize everything

And argue with everything.

No we don't.

Yes, you do.