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Why are we chasing the amp in the room sound?

gigawatt

Experienced
I love them. I think they are a significant notch better than my previous Adam A7s. Very clear soundstage with good definition in both stereo image and frequency.

Excellent! I bet they sound great. They where a little beyond my budget so I went for the Presonus Sceptre S8's, I'm happy with them. I'm really sold on coaxial speakers.
 

gigawatt

Experienced
Apart from the feeling of pushing air, the amp in the room sound is also a major factor in the overall tone itself. The midrange you hear at room mic distance from an amp is totally different to the midrange response of a close mic.

When you mention room mic distance, how far are you talking about?
 

Luca9583

Inspired
An interesting experiment for live/FOH would be to take something like the Vai concept of using guitar cabs for monitoring and applying that to the PA setup too.

Let's say you've got a 500 capacity club. Traditional rock band setup with drums, bass, two cranked guitars and vocals. You could set the amps up so that on stage each musician has their own cab as a wedge facing them, while the final sound going to the fx return of each guitar amp (perhaps a summed signal including the preamp and any post fx in a loop) could be split and sent to two power amps controlled by the FOH engineer and connected to a wall of cabs similar in size to the PA boxes, facing the audience. Perhaps with some EQs between the split and the additional power amps, the engineer could then dial in a killer representation of those guitars and blend it with everything else going through the actual PA.

The audience would then get..yep.....the amp in the room sound in the mix they hear. You could then still have the on stage cabs mic'd to do a quick A/B between guitar through the "guitar PA" or the main PA. I bet it would sound killer if the FOH engineer were skilled enough, and it might allow the guitars to sit in the mix better given the natural high end roll off the guitar speakers.

This would really depend on the shape and size of the room and the style of music.
 
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seeu22

Member
Just listening to someone who was there describe that stuff is still fascinating to me.
Glad you came to the rescue-
I was crushed by those comments about the live mix of the DP show.
I won’t listen if he tries that craziness with Hendrix in Maui ’70.

I have had a Master volume modded ‘72 SuperLead somewherein my living room / Kitchen since 2008.
So I am use to joking and being silly about the topic of having and using the full-stack the way it was intended.
When I am exhausted at the end of the day from work and then maybe jamming and having a few IPA’s and couple rips off a cigar,
I have found myself getting involved in the comments section on You-tube videos and often get carried away.

I should have realized beforehand that the a fractal forum would not be similar to the comment section on You-Tube.

There is significant genius, knowledge, wisdom, experience and talent lurking around here.

I did not even know what AITR stood for and that it had been discussed to death by administration.
That’s when it occurred to me to hit the brakes and start reading and learning more and stop commenting-
just occasional questions.

It sincerely did not occur to me that a forum might have integrity and that you should be considerate and courteous.
Especially wanted to apologize for the fear-mongering about ear damage from in-ear monitor use.


Haha-Anywzy
to kill 2 birds while I’m here can someone tell me how to raise volume of my guitar sound/ FM3coming out of the monitors without increasing the volume of a you-tube backing track coming from an iPad that is connected to the FM3.

Appeared like I couldn’t control independent volume on the iPad while it was connected-
Bu hopefully I’m wrong.

Thx.
Hey Bill,

I definitely didn't intend to hurt any feelings when I was critical of the DP clip posted. Again, that performance was amazing for it's time. The sound quality and mix is good, especially considering the gear/tech they would have had available in '72. It was also recorded before I was alive to put things into perspective. I have tremendous respect for the musicians that paved the way for us today. Each subsequent generation of players, technicians, and innovators push the performance envelop and experience first.

I remember attending my first live concerts in the late 80's and how overwhelming the experience was. I saw most of the late 80's/early 90's touring arena bands. There were some great shows. I always left with ringing ears, a bit of a beer buzz and a grin from ear to ear. In my mind that was as good as it's gonna get, right? It didn't sound like the CD, but it still sounded good and it was about the experience.

Fast forward to the late 90's and the wife and I are in our local arena for Matchbox 20's Mad Season tour. I remember looking at the PA hang and chatting with the road crew about this new fangled line array thing. I had heard good things about the technology, but never experienced it. Well I was completely floored that night. At the time it was the best sounding live show I had been to by a wide margin. You could here every nuance. The reverb on the drums, finger noise on the guitar strings, the horn section sat in the mix perfectly. It sounded like the CD it had all the energy and sensory overload of a live show. No real AITR sound just great tones that sat perfectly in the mix.

Over the years that followed I experienced many great sounding shows in that arena and worked crew for many of them as well. It's like the live sound experience achieved what I heard in my head. It's not that the shows I saw when I was younger sounded bad, but the new shows sounded the way I heard them in my head.

That '72 DP show, to you, sounds the way a rock concert should. That is fabulous. It is what you perceive as great. Most likely because it's what you grew up listening to and it sounds right to your ears. I respect that and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. At the same time what I hear as right is something different and I don't expect everyone to share that taste.

In short all is good!
 
Hey Bill,

I definitely didn't intend to hurt any feelings when I was critical of the DP clip posted. Again, that performance was amazing for it's time. The sound quality and mix is good, especially considering the gear/tech they would have had available in '72. It was also recorded before I was alive to put things into perspective. I have tremendous respect for the musicians that paved the way for us today. Each subsequent generation of players, technicians, and innovators push the performance envelop and experience first.

I remember attending my first live concerts in the late 80's and how overwhelming the experience was. I saw most of the late 80's/early 90's touring arena bands. There were some great shows. I always left with ringing ears, a bit of a beer buzz and a grin from ear to ear. In my mind that was as good as it's gonna get, right? It didn't sound like the CD, but it still sounded good and it was about the experience.

Fast forward to the late 90's and the wife and I are in our local arena for Matchbox 20's Mad Season tour. I remember looking at the PA hang and chatting with the road crew about this new fangled line array thing. I had heard good things about the technology, but never experienced it. Well I was completely floored that night. At the time it was the best sounding live show I had been to by a wide margin. You could here every nuance. The reverb on the drums, finger noise on the guitar strings, the horn section sat in the mix perfectly. It sounded like the CD it had all the energy and sensory overload of a live show. No real AITR sound just great tones that sat perfectly in the mix.

Over the years that followed I experienced many great sounding shows in that arena and worked crew for many of them as well. It's like the live sound experience achieved what I heard in my head. It's not that the shows I saw when I was younger sounded bad, but the new shows sounded the way I heard them in my head.

That '72 DP show, to you, sounds the way a rock concert should. That is fabulous. It is what you perceive as great. Most likely because it's what you grew up listening to and it sounds right to your ears. I respect that and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. At the same time what I hear as right is something different and I don't expect everyone to share that taste.

In short all is good!

All good for sure.
I appreciate your thoughts, experience and straight forward opinions.
Have a good one.
 
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