Who reckons their s.state power amp gives the same 'punch' as..

Georgy

Georgy

Inspired
Let me rephrase the question..

Who believes a solid state power amp (be it a Matrix or Behringer etc) can produce the same punch/air movement/'feel' etc etc, as their valve power amp/valve head through the same cab?? We're not talking FRFR here guys, we're talking non-FRFR.

Curious to know if there would be a difference between, for example, a Matrix GT800/1000 going into an Orange 4x12 loaded with V30s compared to going from a 100w valve head into the same cab..??

Would there be a noticeable difference in sound/feel/punch?? If so, how much? 10% noticeable difference? 30% noticeable difference?

You get the idea..
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
Well it just so happens my gt1000fx arrived today. I'll be A/Bing with the Friedman head ASAP.
Click to expand...

Will be curious to get your honest thoughts.. What cab you running it through?

I'm especially curious because I've got a Friedman JJ clone which I'm running into a 2x12 Friedman cab loaded with V30s and it sounds just amaze..
 
We did a short test at rehearsal last week:
AX8 -> Ampeg PF500 (Class D Bass amp) -> 4x12 V30 or KT100 cab and compared it to real 100W amps (Engl+Diezel)
I missed the thump in your stomach sometimes when playing muted low power chords. But we didn't have much time and I did not mess much with the parameters like speaker low res frequency...
 
Last edited:
I've been using valve poweramps (mesa 2:90/vht/engl) and now I'm using a Matrix GM50
I get same feel/punch from Q1+ firmware with my current rig as I did before
Parameters to tweak (a bit): Dyn Depth and Speaker LFR
 
At home I'm using a Genz Benz G flex 2x12, at the studio I've got a peavey 5150 4x12 that was rumored to be eddies actual cab used on a tour. I've never looked to see what speakers are in it but it sounds great. Prior to that I had an oversized Mesa 4x12 with v30's and hated every amp I played thru it. I think I went thru 3 heads before I realized it was the cab I didn't like! Anyway I will be experimenting today with the 2x12 at home and unfortunately won't be able to get up to the studio for a week n a half or so. From what I gather it is crucial to find the LF resonance of your actual cab and match it up to the axe setting when using the matrix which I will be doing. This may be why RB was missing some thump.
 
I have found using an ART SLA-2 that I can get close to my actual Triple Rectifier, but it requires volume. The Recto has to be turned up enough to rattle walls, and the Axe/ART is no different. Once I get it up to the same volumes, it gets less and less noticeable that it is different.

I do typically run LPFs after the amp though to increase the low end +5db to +12db depending on the preset.

I am curious to see how the Matrix does though. I am considering heavily to replace the ART with a Matrix.
 
I'd say 10% to 15% difference that needs dialled out or in (depends on what amp and tubes etc). Tube power amps compress and distort a bit and change character even more as you open up their input volumes - IE they 'colour' the tone. SS amps have a more linear response throughout the input volume. I suppose the speaker reaction is a little different with each amp type too.

I have a Mesa 50/50 amp and a Matrix GT1000FX ........ I've compared both with conventional guitar cabs/speakers. They can be made to sound similar.

I haven't actually compared both with FRFR cabs yet ..... might do that someday as it could be interesting but I'm of the thought that SS amp with FRFR cabs is the 'proper' solution for modelling devices and removes the uncertainty of what happens when the power amp gets hiked up in volume.
 
maxdown said:
I'd say 10% to 15% difference that needs dialled out or in (depends on what amp and tubes etc). Tube power amps compress and distort a bit and change character even more as you open up their input volumes - IE they 'colour' the tone. SS amps have a more linear response throughout the input volume. I suppose the speaker reaction is a little different with each amp type too.

I have a Mesa 50/50 amp and a Matrix GT1000FX ........ I've compared both with conventional guitar cabs/speakers. They can be made to sound similar.

I haven't actually compared both with FRFR cabs yet ..... might do that someday as it could be interesting but I'm of the thought that SS amp with FRFR cabs is the 'proper' solution for modelling devices and removes the uncertainty of what happens when the power amp gets hiked up in volume.
Click to expand...

Maxdown, do you feel like the Mesa 50/50 and the GT1000FX can reach similar volumes when turned up? Would the 50/50 have any advantages over the GT1000FX?
 
Well I gave the matrix a run through. My first impression is that it sounds more like the real be100 head than it does running just the preamp sim into the fx return of the head. It's hard to say for sure how good it is until I get a band practice on it though. Thump was certainly not a problem.
 
satchfrk said:
Maxdown, do you feel like the Mesa 50/50 and the GT1000FX can reach similar volumes when turned up? Would the 50/50 have any advantages over the GT1000FX?
Click to expand...
To my ears the Mesa 50/50 does not increase in volume after about 5 on it's input knobs - it just gets a bit more squishy (it's loud though!)
The Matrix equals it and I think could go louder (not that I need to).

The only advantage that the Mesa has is when paired with my Marshall JMP-1 - they interact nicely (JMP-1 being a noisy beast - so I keep it's gain down a little and let the Mesa tubes do some work).

For AxeFX it's Matrix option every time

My Mesa is an older 'Fifty/Fifty' one (no individual standbys per channel etc) - originally made with the Mesa Studio Preamp in mind but it has the 'Deep Mod' (to help it when paired with the Triaxis) so it thumps like a good'un - but the Matrix will do the same if you throw the right dialled in tone at it.

My Mesa/JMP-1/tc electronic G-Major 2 rig is a nostalgic rack parked in the man cave - the AxeFX/Matrix rack (rack bag actually) is the go to really light to carry rig
 
When using axe fx through a transparent amp, such as the matrix, with a real cab and comparing it to a real amp, the "speaker" page in the amp block is important to look into. The affect of these parameters are there naturally, with a real tube amp, but Axe FX is a digital unit and it has no idea what cab is connected, so you have to dial them in manually to get authentic results. By default, these settings are set to mimic a cab that is most often used with that amp type, but it's not perfect. If you lack the "thump", which you get with a real amp on the same basic settings, you can dial it in there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bought a Matrix 1000 a few weeks ago. Had my Mesa 100 watt Dual Rectifier side by side with it for a few hours, playing most of my guitars through them. Sold the DR yesterday and didn't even notice it was gone. LOL
 
New convert over to the Matrix GT1000fx from a Mesa 290. The Mesa 290 was really a great power amp, and had a great sound. The Matrix works so much better for me, though. I have full control over my sound. I don't feel like I'm fighting anything to dial in sounds I want - like a fixed depth circuit or a fixed presence curve. I can manipulate things to meet my needs.

I think when people complain about Matrix not having enough "punch" it's because they don't have a thorough understanding of the speaker page. You have to find the low resonant frequency that works with your cab (or matching cabs) and figure out which amount and q gets you that particular oomph with your setup. For me, it's exactly 114 Hz. Not 113. Not 115. Exactly 114. The resonance amount and q differ from amp to amp, but when I set it to exactly that it makes the frequency content and response totally come alive.

Post-Quantum 2.0, I pretty much feel like I'm not missing a damn thing other than a lot of tube expense, amp maintenance, and heavy lifting. My rack went from 60 pounds to 30 pounds, and every time I flip the Matrix on it sounds exactly the same as the last time I called up a preset. That kind of consistency just doesn't occur with tubes. Consider me a happy, happy boy.
 
Hmm....I went down this road 2 years ago and didn't like the matrix, but I was playing shred and modern Metal.
Now I am in a cover band and I find I live on the orange crunch channel of my JVM. Doing more stuff like 90's "rock" and
and dancy stuff so I actually play a lot more clean funky lines, some U2, Mumford and sons googoo dolls , stuff like that.
Yzero shered...........sh*t barely any lead playing at all.
Maybe time to revisit this as I hate lugging around my JVM and my Axe Fx.
I also just set up my jvm with nothing in the loop and it sounds much better ...and much louder than when I run my Axe Fx in 4CM.
Hmmm.........................................

is the Matrix still the "flavor of the month" when it comes to Power amps?
 
Dial in your AXEFX AMP block and stand back; a Matrix gt1000fx has more than enough juice. I run into a pair of Friedman 2x12 cabs in stereo. No issue with thump.

I'll add that I'm just now working with speaker page to no result yet - might be my amp choices which use high neg. feedback ... dunno - still learning. I know it's loaded with V30s which have resonance at 75 cycles, but I couldn't hear anything moving from 110 down to 75 ... will have to keep trying or find a better frequency. I've emailed Friedman to see if they have the information.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom