Who knew the Bassman could out Marshall a Marshall?

biggness

biggness

Power User
My friend and I were talking about some old classic amps and he showed me a video of a Bassman sounding pretty gnarly. He mentioned that Jim Marshall had ripped the circuit, for what he believed, from the Bassman. So I decided to see what I could come up with. I Tonematched the Youtube video since the guy in the video had a cab with some K100 speakers. I ended up tweaking the amp a little afterwards, but it came out sounding pretty nice. I made a small clip of it for my friend to hear, and thought I would share.



It is the 65 BassGuy model into a Tonematch cab. The settings, for those interested, are input gain 3 o'clock, bass 10 o'clock, treble 1 o'clock, with the Cut and Fat switches enabled.

Also, here is the video I Tonematched:

 
A modded Bassman pretty much equals a Marshall and then some

My 1965 BF Bassman has an extra gain stage from the other side of the 12ax7 on the Bass input, and then the deep switch has been tweaked to provide a bit of a mid boost. Crank that thing up to 10 and play it through a 4x12 cab loaded with Green Backs and its as rock n' roll as it gets


Or just take a listen to any Social Distortion/Mike Ness track, which again is modded Bassman on 10 (reason why I got one in the first place)
 
lqdsnddist said:
A modded Bassman pretty much equals a Marshall and then some

My 1965 BF Bassman has an extra gain stage from the other side of the 12ax7 on the Bass input, and then the deep switch has been tweaked to provide a bit of a mid boost. Crank that thing up to 10 and play it through a 4x12 cab loaded with Green Backs and its as rock n' roll as it gets


Or just take a listen to any Social Distortion/Mike Ness track, which again is modded Bassman on 10 (reason why I got one in the first place)
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How did you add a gain stage? Input trim?
 
Jim Marshall copied the tweed Bassman circuit for his amps, not the Blackface, although the BF Bassman amps do have
more grit to them than the other amps of that era.
 
grape said:
Jim Marshall ;0)
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I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg


nicolasrivera said:
Nice sound, but im hearing a bit too much fizz not present in the youtube video
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I agree. I Tonematched it, and it didn't sound as thick and had quite a bit more high end. That is when I said "Fugg it" and decided to tweak it some. lol I have tried this Tonematch cab with a few more amps, such as the Wrecker2, and some Plexi's, and I must say that I am totally digging it.

yek said:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/74642-65-bassman-another-plexi.html
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That is one of my favorite clips on Youtube. I remember the first time I watched, all I could think was "But I thought Fender's were known for their cleans?!?" haha

muttonhead said:
Jim Marshall copied the tweed Bassman circuit for his amps, not the Blackface, although the BF Bassman amps do have
more grit to them than the other amps of that era.
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Thanks for the info. Which Marshall amp is the equivalent of the tweed Bassman, the JTM45?
 
biggness said:
Which Marshall amp is the equivalent of the tweed Bassman, the JTM45?
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The earliest JTM45's, i.e. the offset's, were, essentially, a Bassman clone. The tone stack was a bit different, so they were a bit dirtier. Things changed very quickly, however, as the tubes used in the old Bassman weren't readily available in the UK, so they switched to KT66. Moreover, the early RS output transformers were responsible for a lot of the JTM45 tone.....although these were superseded by Drake OT's, which generates a lot of the tone people usually associate with Marshall.

The whole Bassman/Marshall thing is a bit of a misnomer IMHO, like suggesting that a Trainwreck Liverpool is an AC30.......
 
biggness said:
Thanks for the info. Which Marshall amp is the equivalent of the tweed Bassman, the JTM45?
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The Marshall JTM45 is basically the same thing as the 5F6A Bassman, if you would look at the schematics. The Marshalls are designed with British parts and transformers though, so obviously they don't sound the same - but you can definitely hear some Bassman in the JTM45, even more if you hook up the 4x12 Jensen speakers to it. :) Both can be great hard-rock amps too!
 
The blonds rock pretty hard too- the Bassman heads are my all time favorites. My 1964 Tuxedo 6g6b is the only amp I kept after getting my Axe II, and I'll never get rid of it. It's special!
 
tonaholic said:
How did you add a gain stage? Input trim?
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I had my amp tech do it, not sure the exact process, but you can probably find some post from Billy Zoom or now the guy behind Divided by 13 amps, whatever his name is, who mod Mike Ness's amps.

I also got a PPIMV on mine as well just to help tame the volume some, so I can dime it and now blow the widows out/lose my hearing. 2 6l6 should only be putting out around 50 watts but darn if they aren't the loudest 50 watts I've ever heard

Mine has the AA864 spec on the normal channel, so it does great Fender cleans, and then the bass channel gets a nice Marshall like grind. Simple A/B box and its really the best of both worlds, not to mention you can still get old Bassman heads for less than the cost of either a vintage Plexi or a vintage BF/tweed Fender Vibroverb or Deluxe etc
 
Adman103 said:
The blonds rock pretty hard too- the Bassman heads are my all time favorites. My 1964 Tuxedo 6g6b is the only amp I kept after getting my Axe II, and I'll never get rid of it. It's special!
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Same here, I've gotten rid off all my amps, and about 98% of my pedals since getting the Axe, but my 65 blackface is just too cool to sell. Also hung onto a vintage 70's Marshall 4x12 cab with UK Greenbacks, on account of them just not making them like that anymore


I've though about inquiring to Cliff about modeling my amp though so I could have something similar in the Axe. Plenty of great amp models in there already but none of them sound quite like a modded Bassman to my ears
 
lqdsnddist said:
Same here, I've gotten rid off all my amps, and about 98% of my pedals since getting the Axe, but my 65 blackface is just too cool to sell. Also hung onto a vintage 70's Marshall 4x12 cab with UK Greenbacks, on account of them just not making them like that anymore


I've though about inquiring to Cliff about modeling my amp though so I could have something similar in the Axe. Plenty of great amp models in there already but none of them sound quite like a modded Bassman to my ears
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Yea, I've offered up my black Blonde in the "Have an amp to be modeled" thread, but no takers so far. C'est la vie! I may drop it off for a little checkup fairly soon- I'm going to call Jason Schroeder up and see how long the wait is. One of the small bottle RCAs I had in the thing blew up a few weeks ago, so it's due for a bias.
 
Are we saying that the 65 bassman is what the marshalls were based on? I believe the marshalls were based on the 59 bassman circuit. If memory serves me, the 65 circuit is completely different.
 
guitarmike said:
Are we saying that the 65 bassman is what the marshalls were based on? I believe the marshalls were based on the 59 bassman circuit. If memory serves me, the 65 circuit is completely different.
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You are correct a 1965 BF Bassman should be the AB165 or AA864 circuit, while the original Marshalls were based off the old tweed 5F6A Bassman.

However, an early tweed Bassman is somewhat akin to a JTM45, while the later BF's (especially when modded) are more like a hot Plexi (and honestly better sounding than one)

Question is, and its subjective, what does a "Marshall" sound like ?


To me, a JTM45, while a really great amp, isn't the tone I think of when I think "Marshall". I think of a roaring Plexi or a JCM800. Others may think of a DSL2000 or who knows what else. So when one talks about out "marshalling" a Marshall, its all dependent upon the Marshall tone your talking about.
 
The 59 Bassman model sounds downright rude when cranked and paired with a 4x12 cab IR. Great old school rock tones!
 
while the later BF's (especially when modded) are more like a hot Plexi (and honestly better sounding than one)
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The bf (black face) fender circuits are nothing like a classic marshall circuit or the 59 bassman circuit. They`re totally different. As to what sounds better, that is totally subjective. There is typically quite a difference between the way BF fenders sound and marshalls. The tone circuit is radically different both in its components and location in the circuit. Just sayin`.....
 
guitarmike said:
The bf (black face) fender circuits are nothing like a classic marshall circuit or the 59 bassman circuit. They`re totally different. As to what sounds better, that is totally subjective. There is typically quite a difference between the way BF fenders sound and marshalls. The tone circuit is radically different both in its components and location in the circuit. Just sayin`.....
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Well said! The 65 bassman has nothing to do with the classic 5F6A 59 bassman circuit! The 59 bassman features a post gain tonestack, a DC coupled cathode follower etc......

The AB165 (65)bassman summing gain stage clips very well, much hotter sounding than other bassman circuit designs in the 60s - you get some nice crunch out of it!
 
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