Which is the better Power Amp for Axe-FX-Matrix or VHT/Fryette?

mightywarlock

mightywarlock

Member
I have a 2:90:2 power amp, and I've never really been happy with my live into a cabinet tone when using my Axe-Fx units.
Are people generally more happy with the Matrix amps, or is it something I have to tweak to make what I hear recorded or in my headphones sound just as good though my cab's.
I have tried turning on and off the Cabinet sims and Power amp sim and such in the General menu.

Hence, I've never used it live outside of the studio.

So should I get a Matrix? or tweak settings to sound right on my old VHT?
 
Are you using a full range cab or gtr speakers?

Personally I would not look to tweak your headphone or recording patches for live. Instead I would start from scratch.

Regarding the Matrix it's a great amp. I was initially unsure about it but after a few gigs and tweaking with the Axe I now love it! I run mine through a Zilla 2x12 guitar cab. Cabs sims off power amp sims on.
 
To take full advantage of the Axe II I use a Matrix power amp, the whole concept of the Axe is to be light and versatile right? What you need to do is start your patches from scratch as already mentioned, it took me a good few months and a fair amount of trial and error.
 
Well... sound-wise nothing will beat a real tube power amp. (at this point of time at least) You definitely shouldn't have cab sims or power amp modeling on with that power amp.

If your setup was FRFR then my answer would be very different.

What cab do you have? It makes a bigger difference than the power amp. You cab will shape your tone in a drastic way. If you tweak your tones on headphones then you shouldn't expect to hear the same thing through your cab.. UNLESS! You make an IR of your cab which you will ofcourse bypass when using the real cab.
 
I have the Matrix and I have the VHT 2:90:2. I also have a Mesa 2/100 and the VHT IS THE BEST! I always have amp sims on and it seems most users do but not cab sims. I have the VHTs presence at about 2 o'clock and the definition all the way up. I leave the buttons out that give it more high end because that makes it too brittle. I think Cliff posted somewhere that the VHT was one of the most transparent tube amps.
 
mightywarlock said:
I have a 2:90:2 power amp, and I've never really been happy with my live into a cabinet tone when using my Axe-Fx units.
Are people generally more happy with the Matrix amps, or is it something I have to tweak to make what I hear recorded or in my headphones sound just as good though my cab's.
I have tried turning on and off the Cabinet sims and Power amp sim and such in the General menu.

Hence, I've never used it live outside of the studio.

So should I get a Matrix? or tweak settings to sound right on my old VHT?
Click to expand...


In a word... Tweak!

I don't know what type of music you are playing, or cabinets you are using, but from personal experience... I had a similar thought. I got the Matrix (GTX1000), tried like hell to make work for me. Spent many hours tweaking and work with a tech from Matrix, but was just way too flat, no head room and no punch (for me). I went right back to the 2:Nintey with no regrets.

I think the Matrix is a great amp, it's just not for me. I think most cats are using either FRFR or direct setups, so I think it's a bit of a different experience which really takes advantage of the Axe FX simulators. Defiantly makes it a lot easier getting tone.

I'm using Mesa Recto cabinets at 4 ohms (2*12 and 4*12). I will say after firmware 11.x, it seems the live "power amp + cab" experience (tone) has improved dramatically. I'm able to get a great big full sound with no simulators. Even my skeptical friends are impressed now.

It did take some perseverance and tweaking, but I'm elate with the end results.

I could be wrong, but it seems a lot of the user presets and user patches shared are geared more toward the FRFR and line-direct masses (nothing wrong with that). So it shouldn't be surprise when you download a patch and sounds thin or just not right through a power amp and real cabinet, however, I find in most cases it can be easily molded into shape.

Lastly, I also have found creating a patch from scratch works really well too. Just work with the amp block and no other variables. Once you got a good base sound the sky's the limit.
 
I own (or have owned in the past) a VHT/Fryette 2/50/2 (6L6), a 2/50/2 (EL34), a VHT Classic (EL34), and a 2/90/2 (KT88 ). I have run those into various cabs, but my favorite is loaded with Scumback M75 LDC's. For the AxeFX into a traditional cab, I think the 2/90/2 is the best. I, of course, run cab sims off, but I leave the power amp sims on - this is because if you use a lot of non-MV models, you aren't going to get the same power tube saturation in those monster KT88's - and to me it just doesn't sound right. I run the presence and depth at about noon.

That being said, I use the Matrix for gigging, because of the weight and space - and I have to have a separate bank of patches tweaked for that amp. I can get really really close to the 2/90/2.

YMMV.
 
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I have the matrix gt1000fx and run it through either two or four Mesa Thiele 1x12's with Mesa branded EVM-12L's and I can't imagine anything sounding better... Amp sims on, cab sims off, done. There a no better recipe.
 
Tried all the SS Offerings, they don't stand up to tubes yet.

Had a 2/90/2 and a 2150, sold the 2/90/2 kept the 2150.

Are you using cab sims on or off? I NEVER used them with a real tube amp, whether or not you like it it sounds nothing like a real amp with all that hyped sounding double filtering.

Other things come I to play as well.

I turn the depth on the amp models off and use the real amps depth or vice versa, never both.

I carefully set the speaker tab low res frequency to match my system.

I turn off the speaker distortion and turn down the transformer distortion.

Basically I try to remove any modeling process that is already happening with a real amp.

From there just tweak, no reason you can't get there.



As for the guy saying you need power amps sims on because the power amp won't break up is just wrong, I can easily get my 2/90/2 and 2150 to add harmonic distortion with proper gain staging setting.

Try turning the power amp volume knob to 10 o clock. Then set amp model master to about 3.00, and max out the output one volume on the axe for unity. Pushes power amp into distortion easily, get thicker, chewier and less clear.
 
Moltenmetalburn said:
Try turning the power amp volume knob to 10 o clock. Then set amp model master to about 3.00, and max out the output one volume on the axe for unity. Pushes power amp into distortion easily, get thicker, chewier and less clear.
Click to expand...

I'm digging the tone now, but never thought of that... Makes total sense! Can't wait to try that recipe. It will be mind blowing if it adds to what's already there.

Thanks!
 
I've got a multitude of cabs, but have typically tried the Axe setup with my Mesa Traditional 4x12 cab.
I guess I was expecting an instant good sound, without so much tweaking.

Guess I'll have to start from scratch and see how it goes...
 
Well bypass cabs and power amp simulation and you should have the real thing. You already have the world's best cab, amp simulator, effects and one of the best power amps.

After that it should be simple. Less is more. Have you checked your tubes?
 
I initially loved the Matix with my 2X12 cabs but had the opportunity to score a Fryette 2/50/2 for cheap and have never looked back.
power amp sims on cab sims off to start. I've found that at higher volumes some of the amps models work better with the power amp soms off (JVM for instance)
I already have El-34's ..for real driving this thing so turning off the power amp in certain scenarios can bring great results
In general I leave them on.
using a PQG right before the fx loop block gives me great flexibilty in matching up different types of cab responses. since I am using V30's
scooping or boosting certain freqs can get me closer to what a greenback would get me etc.
the fryettes are pretty transparent, right now I 'm also using a JSX head and I almost like even better than the Fryette
it's not quite as transparent but it adds great "sparkle" to my patches
 
Moltenmetalburn said:
As for the guy saying you need power amps sims on because the power amp won't break up is just wrong, I can easily get my 2/90/2 and 2150 to add harmonic distortion with proper gain staging setting.
Click to expand...

That is not what I said. If you are using an amp model such as the AC30 or a plexi-type amp, the distortion you get from the KT88's is not going to sound like those "power tubes" in the models - especially on the low end. You *may* want to keep those power amp sims on and tweak to taste. There is no right or wrong.

If it sounds good to you, then rock and roll. The Fryette 2/90/2 is one great power amp.
 
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