Where can I find an in-depth Cab block guide? (IRs)

I like Ownhammer's way of numbering, ) being dead center, moving out in increments to 10. That being said, knowing what speakers/cabs/mics you like makes it pretty easy to find something fast. If you don't know, find out what has been used on recording that you like and mimic those.
 
As long as we agree it's vector multiplication where the i'th element of each vector is multiplied and all the products are summed to give the final value :)
 
Hear something you like, correlate it with a written description, might save you time in the future and even learn something in the process.
 
MackieFX said:
I refuse to spend money on IRs if Ive just spent 2500e on an AxeFX. There should be no reason the built in IRs arent as good as the others surely..
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I was very much of the same viewpoint. Why would you want to pay for IR's??

…. Until I bought some very well executed IR's from a third party. The difference strangely, in my BeyerDynamic headphones (where I thought I would notice it the most) was at best negligible.

However, through my guitar speaker cabinet, utilising a Celestion F12-X200 and also any speakers you may encounter in clubs etc or FRFR speakers such as Atomic and Matrix the difference between the Axe Stock IR's and ones I have paid for on recommendation, is very noticeable.

The whole guitar sound is improved, in a way almost akin to listening to a music clip with a low sample rate and bit depth, and then listening to it at a much higher rate.

In my experience, in headphones and for recording purposes the difference between Stock and Third party IR's is subtle.

For live work, the IR's I have bought, have a significant impact on my tone that easily justifies the cost.
 
neale dunham said:
I was very much of the same viewpoint. Why would you want to pay for IR's??

…. Until I bought some very well executed IR's from a third party. The difference strangely, in my BeyerDynamic headphones (where I thought I would notice it the most) was at best negligible.

However, through my guitar speaker cabinet, utilising a Celestion F12-X200 and also any speakers you may encounter in clubs etc or FRFR speakers such as Atomic and Matrix the difference between the Axe Stock IR's and ones I have paid for on recommendation, is very noticeable.

The whole guitar sound is improved, in a way almost akin to listening to a music clip with a low sample rate and bit depth, and then listening to it at a much higher rate.

In my experience, in headphones and for recording purposes the difference between Stock and Third party IR's is subtle.

For live work, the IR's I have bought, have a significant impact on my tone that easily justifies the cost.
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I have to say, that's pretty disappointing :(

Can you even get close with the stock IRs ?
 
MackieFX said:
I have to say, that's pretty disappointing :(

Can you even get close with the stock IRs ?
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In a Word...…. No.

Look at it this way. The Axe FX is designed to be a direct accurate model of an amplifier. Not a speaker. An Amplifier is a lot easier to control in terms of capturing the "exact" sound. Notwithstanding the fact that no two amps (even of identical brand) really sound the same.

Speakers are even harder to capture.

Given the enormous variables at play. i.e. which speaker type, which enclosure, which microphone and which room?

That given, Fractal, as far as I can see, have not produced or captured their own IR's. Or at least, as far as I can tell, very few. most are third party suppliers. Some sound and perform better than others.

So, now, we have a situation whereby some developers are better than others at producing high quality IR's.

The developers I have used for my IR's sound superior to the stock IR's for my live work.

Its not necessarily, (in my opinion) up to Fractal to provide a database of ever expanding high quality IR's from third party suppliers. I would imagine, Its just not cost effective for them, from a business perspective.

Fractal offer a good range of IR's that work well with their products.

However, as an analogy, take a premium brand such as Mercedes, their production cars do not ship with the most expensive wheels and tyres on the planet. Its just not cost effective. Aftermarket items are available from third party suppliers, and if you like them, and think it will improve your experience of the vehicle buy them, If not, stick with what you have an you still have a high quality product.
 
Many of the factory IRs are from the same producers that make some of the best known and most respected third party cabs. It's great you're happy with your purchases and your tones using them, but many people are getting great results from the stock cabs.
 
You are absolutely correct Dave,

As I have already outlined.

What I am keen to point out though, is that those exact developers have moved on since the inception of the Axe3.

The Stock Cab IR's have not.
 
I think it is a misunderstanding to think that third party IRs are of higher quality. 3rd party can give you flavours that are not available in the box, but there is no difference in the quality.
When you but a 3rd party package, it is not uncommon to get several hundreds of captures of a single cabinet. The Axe has only 2.000 IRs to cover every imaginable cabinet.

I managed to shoot an IR myself that I like a lot, but I am definitely not an expert at sitting IRs. I shot my own old cabinet, so it's not surprising that I like this particular flavor.
 
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Smittefar,

I share your sentiments to a degree.

Third Party IR's are not necessarily of a higher quality. The point I wish to make is that things have progressed in the IR field since the original cab block IR's were installed onto the Axe 3.

Say I choose an IR from the 2000+ available.

I know I am using old technology.

Some of these IR's are 2 years+ old now, and some much older than that.

The information on who supplied the IR's is readily available if you care to look. Including the dates they were produced.

Things have moved forward significantly since then. The third party suppliers that have kindly "donated" their IR's to Fractal now have superior products.
 
neale dunham said:
Smittefar,

I share your sentiments to a degree.

Third Party IR's are not necessarily of a higher quality. The point I wish to make is that things have progressed in the IR field since the original cab block IR's were installed onto the Axe 3.

Say I choose an IR from the 2000+ available.

I know I am using old technology.

Some of these IR's are 2 years+ old now, and some much older than that.

The information on who supplied the IR's is readily available if you care to look. Including the dates they were produced.

Things have moved forward significantly since then. The third party suppliers that have kindly "donated" their IR's to Fractal now have superior products.
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Could you point me to a couple examples of these superior IRs? I'm curious, I haven't bought any IR pack in the last couple years.
And what makes them superior in your opinion?
 
The technology (IR length, sample rate, etc) is the same. The ways we mic up a guitar cab had not changed much in many years.

I am sure the IR guys continuously learn about how to capture cabinet in ways that translate in to good IRs - and of course they have to tell us it is a dramatic difference to sell their products. But the reality is that a good IR is a good IR, no matter when it was captured.
 
Smittefar said:
The technology (IR length, sample rate, etc) is the same. The ways we mic up a guitar cab had not changed much in many years.

I am sure the IR guys continuously learn about how to capture cabinet in ways that translate in to good IRs - and of course they have to tell us it is a dramatic difference to sell their products. But the reality is that a good IR is a good IR, no matter when it was captured.
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+1. You saved me some typing there. :)
 
Smittefar said:
The technology (IR length, sample rate, etc) is the same. The ways we mic up a guitar cab had not changed much in many years.

I am sure the IR guys continuously learn about how to capture cabinet in ways that translate in to good IRs - and of course they have to tell us it is a dramatic difference to sell their products. But the reality is that a good IR is a good IR, no matter when it was captured.
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Agreed Smit, A good IR is a good IR.

As you put it, The IR guys continuously strive to improve things. In my opinion, they have and do. Otherwise the whole concept stagnates and we remain fixed at the position we are now forever??

But you know as well as I do, that cannot, and will not be the case.

Everything musically has to improve, or it ceases to exist, or to be utilised. I doubt anything of this technology will reach its natural conclusion so early in its inception. Music, and reproduction of music, has always improved in one way or another.
Recording techniques improve and recording equipment improves alongside it, and I don't believe that we have reached the maximum capability of IR's and hit the wall just yet.

I have downloaded, tried, and use this as a pure example.....

The York Audio Mesa 2x12 trial pack. As stated in my previous comms above, these IR's demonstrate that improvements have been made over stock cabinets (I have tried) in the Axe FX. I have tried most of the standard variety.

Most people band the figure of 2000+ cabinets.

Let's be a little more realistic here tho. Once you take out the multiple shots. The number is actually closer to a couple of hundred individual cabinets I would guess? im sure somebody somewhere has calculated the exact number.

Once you remove the SM57 A, B, C D, Royer A, B, C D etc etc. The number of actual cabinets, diminishes rapidly from the magic 2000.

This is not a criticism, it is purely an observation, and by doing so removes any ambiguity.

The YA IR's definitely enhance my Live sound through FRFR speakers. They seem to have a little more clarity and definition overall than the stock IR's I have tried. The stock IR's I have auditioned all have a very similar level of sound quality in comparison. Which is still of a very good level.

I don't know why these IR's seem to perform better, maybe I just got lucky, perhaps take a listen for yourself and compare.

All I need to know, is that it's definitely not the end game for IR's, and their maximum sonic quality has not been reached.

Sure we reached maximum audible bit depths and sample rates years ago, but that doesn't stop people that know what they are doing making music sound better every day. Year after year.

The same I feel goes for IR's. As they can and will, improve over time.
 
I think the stock IRs are great, but I only use them with smoothing and proximity applied. I don’t use any IRs without smoothing and proximity, even IRs I’ve created haha. It’s just how they hit my ears; paradoxically, smoothing seems to make the cab sound more raw to me, which just make my hands jump in an awesome way. But there really is no right or wrong here; it’s like everything else in audio, just what hits your ears right and inspires you.

Since you’re not hearing stuff you like with the stock IRs, do give it a try to set the smoothing somewhere between 3 and 8, whatever sounds good to you, and the proximity between 1 and 3 to start, then audition the stock IRs again and see if that changes things for you! :)

Best of luck!
 
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