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whats wrong with gibson and fender ?

Tonewicker

Inspired
Not true at all. Take any brand new Gibson or Fender to a decent luthier and spend $50 having it professionally setup (or learn to do it properly yourself) and you will have a very good quality instrument that will get the job done for years to come. Personal preference aside, the idea that stock Fenders and Gibsons are not good enough is just plain false. The idea of having to spend a little bit of money on a new guitar is frustrating, but it's not like they are complete junk. A sticking nut slot is not a reason to spend $3000 on a new guitar.
dont get me wrong i love the instruments too i still really enjoy both of my fender and gibson guitars and yes of course you dont have to spend $3000 just because of the nut i just want to point out that when you buy a instrument and you spend +$1000 on it you naturally expect that it can work fine and you dont need to change parts even its a $10 part (im not talking about adjustments) and the fact that you need to is a kinda slap in the face by the companies that represent ''quailty'' for many years. its not about a $10 part its about the state of a ''finished'' product
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
G and D strings on Gibson headstocks have the sharpest side pull angle due to the 3x3 layout of the tuners and wider peghead shape. Combine that with the very sharp back angle and there's a tremendous amount of pressure and friction in the nut slots on those two strings especially. Straight pull headstocks are far better in this regard. That's why Gibsons with a tremolo and non locking nut (like a Bigsby) are a gigantic pain in the ass.
 

cragginshred

Fractal Fanatic
@ATR1 gee I wonder why they switch guitars after every song? Working man gigs is the context of my statement................
I will say I never tried replacing the nut as others suggested. I did try the graphite and re tooled the slots ect. (zero efficacy) All of which I am sure the 'rock gods' have to do -but would Never need to be done with a Suhr

Out of the box the Suhrs and others mentioned will play perfect -kinda the gist of the discussion. I will say I wish I never would have sold my last Les Paul with Bonamassa pick ups. It stayed in tune part of the time.
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
If your guitar is not staying in tune the strings are either slipping, stretching, or binding. Tremolo equipped guitars can also suffer from the bridge not returning to zero properly. If your notes are going sharp, you likely have binding. If your notes are going flat, you likely have stretching or slipping.

Slipping - cheap, worn, or damaged tuners can have slack in them or even slip backwards due to string tension. Always tune up to pitch to keep the gear at the bottom of any slack present. Also, make sure you wrap the string properly around the post and lock it in place by kinking it over itself. Also, don't use too many wraps around the post as well. Friction between the wraps can cause binding and slippage of the wraps on the post. Locking tuners eliminate the need for wraps and will be far less prone to string slip.

Stretching - Steel guitar strings stretch quite a bit when first put on the guitar. If you don't pre-stretch them, they will stretch while you play leaving you flat. Gently stretch the strings repeatedly up and down the neck until they stop going flat.

Binding - As you bend notes and apply vibrato, the string slides back and forth in the nut and saddle slots a tiny bit. If it is not free to slide in both directions, it will bind and leave you out of tune. Properly sized and cut string slots are essential. Lubricating the nut slots with graphite or nut sauce helps too. If you hear a pinging sound from the strings while turning the tuning key, the string is binding in its slot. Locking nuts and saddles eliminate this issue.

Tremolo issues - if you tremolo does not return to zero, chances are the contact points between the tremolo and it's pivot points are either out of alignment or worn or damaged. Use of the tremolo also exacerbates existing issues with the three problems above.
 

Jeries

Power User
That's the Squier brand. Fender brand guitars and basses are all made here in the USA or in Mexico (standard series). Same goes for Gibson. Gibsons are all made in the USA and Epiphones are imports.

100% Wrong

Look at this...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...lrTDnyJtj7v7KnlLLSdsCkDXwtsAykVZE9BoCTvzw_wcB

Fender guitar, Fender headstock price tag of $699
look at the back of the headstock...
CRAFTED IN CHINA

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TelePLMPHB
The modern player series and maybe more is all MADE IN CHINA
$500-800 FENDER guitars that say Fender... priced more than MIM, more expensive than a used USA Fender-
Made in China
 

addedc

Experienced
I always felt a little skeptical of Fender and Gibson build quality. Despite that, I picked up a second-hand US signature model strat with a roller nut about a year ago for $800. That is a fantastic instrument, totally stays in tune even when using the whammy a lot. I prefer it to my PRS guitars. With Fender, Gibson, all guitars, each one is different for different players and you have to play it to know.
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
100% Wrong

Look at this...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...lrTDnyJtj7v7KnlLLSdsCkDXwtsAykVZE9BoCTvzw_wcB

Fender guitar, Fender headstock price tag of $699
look at the back of the headstock...
CRAFTED IN CHINA

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TelePLMPHB
The modern player series and maybe more is all MADE IN CHINA
$500-800 FENDER guitars that say Fender... priced more than MIM, more expensive than a used USA Fender-
Made in China

That's news to me. Weak. Fender has always used their name on USA or Mexico instrument for years. That was sort of the whole point of the Squier brand. Bad move on their part.

That said, i've not seen one of those in person. Probably still a decent guitar. Just because it's made in China doesn't automatically mean it's no good. As long as Fender holds them to high standards they're probably fine. The Squier vintage modified series guitars are surprisingly good for their price. I'd hope these are the same.
 

Jeries

Power User
That's news to me. Weak. Fender has always used their name on USA or Mexico instrument for years. That was sort of the whole point of the Squier brand. Bad move on their part.

That said, i've not seen one of those in person. Probably still a decent guitar. Just because it's made in China doesn't automatically mean it's no good. As long as Fender holds them to high standards they're probably fine. The Squier vintage modified series guitars are surprisingly good for their price. I'd hope these are the same.

I've played a Squier strat that was a delight. Properly set up by a good tech.

The China Fender guitars are quite good- not my choice in like necks- the fretwork is great (better than MIM EVH) but not my style- very finished, glossy etc-

I put $300+ into a $60 squier... set up, fret dress, new wiring, custom pickups- the older squier standards are great- once you hit 'annfinity' is where they're not so good...

Oh the China Fenders resale is pretty low too- so you can get a good instrument for a good price used.

And I forgot to mention fender has been making guitars in Japan since before I was born- and those can command higher than USA used prices- they're hot now
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
I put $300+ into a $60 squier...

Woo, that's some serious lipstick on a pig there. I bet it was a far cry better than its stock state when you were done though. As long as the wood is decent quality and stable and the fretwork is good, the rest is quite easy to customize.

Yeah I forgot about the Japan made Fenders. Quite a few were made there before the Mexico factory opened in the early 90's. Some early Squiers were made in Japan too. The location of the factory is largely irrelevant as long as the parts used and quality control are good. Great guitars are made all over the world.
 
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Sixstring

Axe-Master
dont get me wrong i love the instruments too i still really enjoy both of my fender and gibson guitars and yes of course you dont have to spend $3000 just because of the nut i just want to point out that when you buy a instrument and you spend +$1000 on it you naturally expect that it can work fine and you dont need to change parts even its a $10 part (im not talking about adjustments) and the fact that you need to is a kinda slap in the face by the companies that represent ''quailty'' for many years. its not about a $10 part its about the state of a ''finished'' product

There are lots of guitar brands out there in the $1000 category that play great right out of the case. A few of them are made in the US and don't have tuning issues.

I used to spend a lot of money on guitars Suhr, PRS etc... not saying it's wrong to do so no one can tell another how or what to spend there hard earned cash on. I have learned that if you find a good guitar that works for you, has no problems use it.

That said I love my Carvin CT624 bought it used a few years ago and still loving it!
 

JayCM800XL

Experienced
I love THE Fender Stratocaster and THE Gibson Les Paul! I admire Leo and Les and we all know they weren't even "luthiers"! The companies, not so much, i don't care, they've been making instruments since before i was born and they'll be around after i'm gone. I own an example of each that are SPECIAL to me! I love them although they're nothing fancy or rare or even top of the line, they stay in tune (i set them up myself), they're my instruments and they inspire me to play. Wouldn't sell them ever (they'll be around after i'm gone, LOL). Find one that you like, they're out there! Good luck!

That said, i've been playing a Strandberg Boden OS since 2014 and I'm in love with the guitar and the company! Kinda like FAS in the way that you as a customer can interact with the mastermind of the concept behind the product! Not that i've ever needed support from either FAS or Strandberg, but I'm here at the forum everyday and can stay updated with Cliff and his epiphanies, same way Ola always pop up on my Facebook feed with news about product development or just to share experiences or provide support and/or guidance to his customers and/or fans.

Both, Fractal Audio Systems and .strandberg Guitars are definitely trail blazers in guitar history and i'm here to go along for the ride for years to come.

PS- I also admire Jim Marshall (he wasn't even an electric engineer or technician!)
 

Pwrmac7600

Power User
@ATR1 gee I wonder why they switch guitars after every song? Working man gigs is the context of my statement................
I will say I never tried replacing the nut as others suggested. I did try the graphite and re tooled the slots ect. (zero efficacy) All of which I am sure the 'rock gods' have to do -but would Never need to be done with a Suhr

Out of the box the Suhrs and others mentioned will play perfect -kinda the gist of the discussion. I will say I wish I never would have sold my last Les Paul with Bonamassa pick ups. It stayed in tune part of the time.

I am a heavy handed player, I strum hard, and I tend to fret hard as well, and I gigged with 2 Les Pauls for years, and never had any issues with them in their stock configurations. I would tune up after playing a couple of songs, not in between every song, and the tuning was fine. I do all of my own setups, and guitar work, and ensure that my strings are thoroughly stretched after each string change.
 

shasha

Fractal Fanatic
For the life of me I will never understand how the most important component for tuning stability is almost always made from the cheapest crap and typically the worst finished part of the guitar. And yes I am talking about the nut. A good bone nut that is cut for your preferred string gauge isn't even an option, but damn near a necessity to get the most out of your guitar from both a playing and a stability point of view. You can buy a decent bone nut that is preslotted for about $5 and with some time and a few tools you can do it yourself or you can pay someone $30-50 to do it, but either way it is time and money well spent.

I don't even fool around with stock nuts anymore. That is a waste of time and money.
 

yek

Legend!
Buy a Suhr or an EVH Wolfie USA model and never look back!
Mass produced products will never have the attention to detail a Suhr has. PRS lovers will say the same and so will Tom Anderson or Tyler users -try and see what you like the best.

Well .... I bought a Suhr GG and it had serious problems from the start (sloppy selector soldering, angled volume knob.
 

ATR1

Inspired
IMHO-You cannot compare a $1,000.00 USA made guitar to a $1,000.00 foreign made guitar. That's not apples for apples.
Again I go back to doing business in USA and China/Mexico/etc. are completely different business structures/regulations,import taxes, labor, etc.
BUY AMERICAN SUPPORT YOUR COUNTRY. Your kids will thank you for it when they become adults.
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
@ATR1 gee I wonder why they switch guitars after every song? Working man gigs is the context of my statement................
I will say I never tried replacing the nut as others suggested. I did try the graphite and re tooled the slots ect. (zero efficacy) All of which I am sure the 'rock gods' have to do -but would Never need to be done with a Suhr

Out of the box the Suhrs and others mentioned will play perfect -kinda the gist of the discussion. I will say I wish I never would have sold my last Les Paul with Bonamassa pick ups. It stayed in tune part of the time.

How many average "working man" musicians do you know that can afford to gig with a $3000 Suhr or Tom Anderson guitar?

I can appreciate a premium instrument as much as anyone, but the idea that one is somehow required to gig is definitely a stretch. You'll see at least a hundred mid priced import guitars on stage for every Suhr or Tom Anderson. Most players I know can barely afford a standard USA Strat or Les Paul.
 

cragginshred

Fractal Fanatic
@mr_fender Agreed, the county I live in I am the only guitarist who even knows what a Suhr is and has a few (let alone Fractal gear)! Most have a sugar mama who pays their rent and own crap gear.
I am blessed to have a great job and no kids (and a cool wife who does not question my spending) which frees up cash. Unfortunately this also means later in life I will be a lonely old fart that cannot hear from cranking great tones on my top shelf gear................
 
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