What's with all this Digitally Remastered Crap?

gigawatt

Experienced
They're ruining all our old songs! I haven't heard one yet that sounds good, all it seems they are doing is raising this and lowering that here and there and making the mix almost unlistenable. I thought it was only supposed to affect the quality of the signal and maybe lower the noise floor. Intolerable! :mad:


;)
 
Steven Wilson remastered a number of Yes' songs. They are posted on Spotify. I listened to many this last week. While I didn't always like them better, they were interesting. Often there was greater instrumental detail. Sometimes this was revelatory, deepening my enjoyment of some songs. Other times I preferred the original mix. Regardless, it was interesting to hear.

http://www.yesworld.com/2018/05/yes-steven-wilson-remixes-vinyl-box-set/
I generally love Steven Wilson's work so I've been wanting to listen to these. Yes also posted them on YT although they split up all the longer pieces.
 
That's akin to saying; "What's with all of this Digital amp modelling stuff? They're ruining guitar tone to the point where you can't tell it's a guitar anymore." With new technology there's always going to be 'progress' which tends to create resistance and pushback from those who long for the 'good ol' days' or who want to just leave well enough alone.

That said, I really like Joe Walsh's view of recording these days; it's become too perfect. Nothing wrong with leaving some "flaws" in the recording, it's what gives it the "Mojo" (according to Walsh). He goes on to say that with everyone coming in separately to lay down their tracks, the interaction between players is gone which robs the track of feeling or expression.
 
That's akin to saying; "What's with all of this Digital amp modelling stuff? They're ruining guitar tone to the point where you can't tell it's a guitar anymore." With new technology there's always going to be 'progress' which tends to create resistance and pushback from those who long for the 'good ol' days' or who want to just leave well enough alone.

That said, I really like Joe Walsh's view of recording these days; it's become too perfect. Nothing wrong with leaving some "flaws" in the recording, it's what gives it the "Mojo" (according to Walsh). He goes on to say that with everyone coming in separately to lay down their tracks, the interaction between players is gone which robs the track of feeling or expression.

I don't think there's anything magical about flaws. I like pristine clean sounds, it's just that our ears and brains have evolved in an imperfect world and are accustomed to all the various background noises and hisses. When its gone we think there's something wrong. It probably takes some getting used to it.

As for the interaction between players gone, that probably is a huge problem. Bands used to record together in studios, now they record separately in their own home studios. Out of necessity for many as most can't afford to rent a full studio anymore, as labels no longer invest in bands anymore.

Then again that problem only applies to traditional rock bands. Modern pop and dance on the other hand doesn't have to record full bands, almost everything you hear there is software and samples, and nobody seems to mind.
 
I remember when CDs first came out and they sounded "too clean" because I was used to the sound of either the needle on the record, or the background tape hiss. Of course over time we all got used to it, but that's part of why there's still that subset of people who prefer vinyl. The digital version of that is "I only listen to FLAC" ;-)

And yes absolutely to losing something because bands often don't play together any more. It's one thing to do overdubs or go back and tighten up your part; that's always been a part of it. But that interaction is a big part of many styles of music. Imagine jazz w/out interaction...
 
I don't think there's anything magical about flaws. I like pristine clean sounds, it's just that our ears and brains have evolved in an imperfect world and are accustomed to all the various background noises and hisses. When its gone we think there's something wrong. It probably takes some getting used to it.

As for the interaction between players gone, that probably is a huge problem. Bands used to record together in studios, now they record separately in their own home studios. Out of necessity for many as most can't afford to rent a full studio anymore, as labels no longer invest in bands anymore.

Then again that problem only applies to traditional rock bands. Modern pop and dance on the other hand doesn't have to record full bands, almost everything you hear there is software and samples, and nobody seems to mind.
The flaws in and of themselves are not 'magical'. I believe his point was that when you get a take when the entire band feeling it and everyone's gelling or in the groove, that's where the 'mojo' happens. It's in spite of the flaws, not because of them.

Producers today have control over every aspect of the recording and it seems a lot of them want absolute perfection. Chasing that perfection though has led to programmed music and not something one can really get into and actually have an experience. It may sound good for the most part but they fail to capture that moment when it all comes together and something magical is created.
 
I've listened to some of Steve Wilson's Yes remixes. They are a rare exception that I believe are better than the originals in many ways. He seems to have tried to stay true to the original mixes (panning etc), and only changes things that were obviously deficient. For example, the solo guitar riffs (especially the second one) in Yours is No Disgrace are actually audible now. FINALLY. The snare is audible in the middle section of Roundabout. Many improvements in clarity and audibility all around. I like them so far...a lot.

On the other hand, Nick Davis totally butchered the entire Genesis catalog with insane amounts of dynamic compression. His remixes are unlistenable. A tragic waste of what could have been an amazing opportunity to make these old records sound amazing. Perhaps Wilson will take up the task one day.
 
On the other hand, Nick Davis totally butchered the entire Genesis catalog with insane amounts of dynamic compression. His remixes are unlistenable. A tragic waste of what could have been an amazing opportunity to make these old records sound amazing. Perhaps Wilson will take up the task one day.

This is what I mean, thank you steadystate :). I was just trolling around Youtube listening to some mixes people have posted and there always seems to be a choice; "Original" or "Digitally Remastered" so don't kill the messenger I am just quoting what I read. Every "DR" sounded like crap in comparison to the original. Vocals too low, snare to hot, cymbals sybilant, kick drum either way to hot or hardly there, guitars thin, guitars drowning out the vocals, bass; just ugghh.

That's akin to saying; "What's with all of this Digital amp modelling stuff? They're ruining guitar tone to the point where you can't tell it's a guitar anymore." With new technology there's always going to be 'progress' which tends to create resistance and pushback from those who long for the 'good ol' days' or who want to just leave well enough alone.

No, it's nothing like that at all. Ya'll talk amongst yourselves, what I was referring to was someone trying to improve on something that didn't need improvement. I.e. Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime, a fantastic full story album from beginning to end. I did a search to see if anyone posted Livecrime, a live version of the band doing the entire album with theatrics and big screen video. What I found said "Livecrime" but when I opened it it was a mix of about 50 songs all out of order and all "Digitally Remastered." I listened to it about 25 seconds and had enough, it sounded aweful. Nobody had posted the original so I moved on, to Shirley, now that chick can sing, has great moves, co mixes their albums, and was born 3 months apart from me... We were meant for each other, my little Scotty ;), Oh if I could just do it all over again knowing then what I know now... :cool:
 
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Every "DR" sounded like crap in comparison to the original. Vocals too low, snare to hot, cymbals sybilant, kick drum either way to hot or hardly there, guitars thin, guitars drowning out the vocals, bass; just ugghh.

Mastering is the process of refining the EQ and compression of the mixed tracks before applying the mix to the "master" storage media used for replication.

I think you are still confusing remastering with remixing...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_mastering?wprov=sfti1

If you have a chance to work with an engineer who is good with mastering, it's a very cool process... I've been lucky to be present during mastering of 3 of my band's albums.

This was all digital... But the engineer loads all the album tracks into a software that's somewhat like a DAW, where each mixed song is kind of like a track in a multi track recording. He can bounce back and forth between the songs very easily and hear the effect of the EQ and compression and tweak as needed. This was where I first heard of multi band compression.

They will also listen to several specific frequency bands across the songs and try to make sure the content in those bands is consistent.

I found it fascinating.
 
I'm by no means a pro-level mix or mastering engineer but my attempts at mixing and mastering have shown that even in the final mastering stage using multiband compression and EQ can change the product drastically so maybe the difference between re-mastering and re-mixing is just the attitude.
 
Mastering is the process of refining the EQ and compression of the mixed tracks before applying the mix to the "master" storage media used for replication.

I think you are still confusing remastering with remixing...

Remember, I didn't say "Remastered," I just quoted whoever wrote it, and please don't hang on every word I say, I'm not Shakespeare. I try to explain things the best I can. ;) Thanks, great story btw. :)

That's part of my point, they're not just remastering, they are remixing and doing imo a poor job of it. They've gone overboard, if they'd have only remastered it might actually sound good. I still prefer the old recordings on two inch tape though, those engineers were true artists in their craft, they new what they were doing, and were practically a member of the band. For some anyway...
 
I've listened to some of Steve Wilson's Yes remixes. They are a rare exception that I believe are better than the originals in many ways. He seems to have tried to stay true to the original mixes (panning etc), and only changes things that were obviously deficient. For example, the solo guitar riffs (especially the second one) in Yours is No Disgrace are actually audible now. FINALLY. The snare is audible in the middle section of Roundabout. Many improvements in clarity and audibility all around. I like them so far...a lot.

On the other hand, Nick Davis totally butchered the entire Genesis catalog with insane amounts of dynamic compression. His remixes are unlistenable. A tragic waste of what could have been an amazing opportunity to make these old records sound amazing. Perhaps Wilson will take up the task one day.

I have to keep an eye out for those Yes tracks, Steve Wilson eh? ...and I'll be sure to steer clear of the Nick Davis Genesis tracks. ;)
 
Truthfully I think most digital remasters these days are just to compete in the loudness wars, and make their old recordings compete with more modern productions. Problem is, you loose most of the dynamics that made those original recordings sound so great and full, even if you had to turn the volume up a little more to get them loud.

^^ This ^^

The good digital formats are capable of much better quality and dynamics. But they just use this new ressource to squeeze the dynamics to death because "loud" is perceived as "better" than dynamic.

Just sad.
 
Brrrrrr - I remember paying for 2 inch tapes.....bloody lot of money for around 20 minutes of recording!
Thanks
Pauly

Remember, I didn't say "Remastered," I just quoted whoever wrote it, and please don't hang on every word I say, I'm not Shakespeare. I try to explain things the best I can. ;) Thanks, great story btw. :)

That's part of my point, they're not just remastering, they are remixing and doing imo a poor job of it. They've gone overboard, if they'd have only remastered it might actually sound good. I still prefer the old recordings on two inch tape though, those engineers were true artists in their craft, they new what they were doing, and were practically a member of the band. For some anyway...
 
The Steven Wilson remasters of Yes are incredible.

The Marino/Page remasters of Zeppelin were also quite good compared to the worn out cassette masters I believe Atlantic used in the 1st generation CD releases. They even chopped off the end of In My Time of Dying on the 1st CD release.

The person who remastered the Killing Joke back catalog really did a nice job as well since the original transfers to CD were abysmal.

The Genesis remasters were criminal. Luckily one of the CDs was skipping in my CD player, so I was able to get store credit towards something else.

The Police remasters were also not as good as original vinyl pressings, the bass was glorious on the vinyl masters compared to the CDs.
 
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