What's the effect of pickup height on humbuckers?

Dave Merrill

Dave Merrill

Axe-Master
I flat out love the bridge pickup on my new-to-me Collings City Limits. Detailed, ballsy, responds well to the tone control, just great.

However, while the neck pickup sounds good on it's own, in comparison to the bridge pickup, it's a bit quieter, and lacking in bite. With much gain, and I don't mean super high gain, it tends to get kind of vowel-y, nice sound, but I'd rather get that by turning the tone control down, and have full up be a different thing.

Both pickups are Throbaks, too expensive to experiment with replacing them.

Would raising it closer to the strings possible help? Any other ideas?
 
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Neck buckers are bassy. Usually my necks seem to put out more than the bridge and I lower them. And drop the volume if using some breakup and overdrive. With the FAS I set a couple amp channels and scenes for the neck pickups or middle position because I don’t like them too muddy. Most of my guitars are single coil necks now and I like that better. Experiment with it and see. You may like it more with the poles lower on the bass side than the high strings. Be happy you have separate volumes. The middle is your best bet. All those great mixed tones you can’t get out of a single volume guitar. Another thing is to have a treble bleed on the volume. Does Collings use those?
 
Hi Dave,

Easy to try it - Just count the exact number of turns (of the pickup adjuster screws) - If you don't like it, put it all back where it was.

Thanks
Pauly

Dave Merrill said:
I flat out love the bridge pickup on my new-to-me Collings City Limits. Detailed, ballsy, responds well to the tone control, just great.

However, while the neck pickup sounds good on it's own, in comparison to the bridge pickup, it's a bit quieter, and lacking in bite. With much gain, and I don't mean super high gain, it tends to get kind of vowel-y, nice sound, but I'd rather get that by turning the tone control down, and have full up be a different thing.

Both pickups are Throbaks, too expensive to experiment with replacing them.

Would raising it closer to the strings possible help? Any other ideas?
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If it's a bit too bassy, perhaps just raise the pole pieces a bit, if there's room to do so (I assume there's some room as you thought of raising it a bit), so that the one coil gets more signal than the other. That can give a little bit clearer tone on a neck pickup.

Hold all the strings down at the last fret, though, and make sure there's at least 1/16" of space between the pole pieces and the strings, so you don't have any issues with the strings hitting them.

If you count quarter turns (90 degree turns) and don't find it an improvement, you can always put them back where they were. Usually, pole pieces are #5/32 fillister head screws, so a half turn is 1/64" and a quarter turn is 1/128". The overall pickup height screws are usually #3/48, so a half turn is 1/96" and a quarter turn is 1/192". At the distances involved, with the inverse square law applying to the magnetic force, these are fair steps to get you in the correct ballpark quickly and reversibly. Once in the ballpark, try smaller tweaks.... :)
 
Just keep in mind, polepieces are essentially magnets so the closer to the string, the harder they pull and the more they (can) limit the amplitude of the string with sometimes noticeable audio results. Depending on the pickup, a pickup too close to the string can become a real "sustain-killer".
 
One of the problems with the interweb is that there is so much authoritative information out there that is plain out contradictory. It can’t all be right. I came across the following recently and post it because it directly addresses the issue you are having. I will leave it to those more knowledgeable to comment on its veracity but it seems a good starting point. And as others have said, changes can always be rolled back.

How to Properly Set the Pole Piece Height on Humbuckers
 
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Yes balancing with hight is the way to go and with PAF style pickups and their output range you don't need to worry about too close unless they are hitting the strings during playing.
Will Schut said:
Just keep in mind, polepieces are essentially magnets so the closer to the string, the harder they pull and the more they (can) limit the amplitude of the string with sometimes noticeable audio results. Depending on the pickup, a pickup too close to the string can become a real "sustain-killer".
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On a PAF the magnet is not strong and the diffused pull is not an issue. What you describe is a single coil issue when the pole piece IS the magnet.
 
If you have a balance issue you can start by measuring the string to pole piece hight (as a reference) and something to return too if needed.
Now set the neck pickup at about 3mm from the E strings. Then balance the volume of the bridge buy raising or lowering . If you can't get a balance drop the neck to 5mm and try again. You should be able to get them at a level that works now see how that sounds to you. If they balance or even a slight push for the bridge. You don't want to go lower than about 5mm though as it starts to impact negatively on the tone. Also don't be scared of close as long as the string does not hit it during playing. On a side note this is for low to medium out put humbuckers only.
 
skolacki said:
Neck buckers are bassy. Usually my necks seem to put out more than the bridge and I lower them. And drop the volume if using some breakup and overdrive. With the FAS I set a couple amp channels and scenes for the neck pickups or middle position because I don’t like them too muddy. Most of my guitars are single coil necks now and I like that better. Experiment with it and see. You may like it more with the poles lower on the bass side than the high strings. Be happy you have separate volumes. The middle is your best bet. All those great mixed tones you can’t get out of a single volume guitar. Another thing is to have a treble bleed on the volume. Does Collings use those?
Click to expand...
On Gibson wiring the separate volumes can't control the mix. They just default to which ever is down the most. They only work independently when you select one pickup alone. To see if you have this wiring select both pickups and turn one volume all the way off. If you have Gibson wiring that will turn off the guitar until you select the other pickup on it's own.
 
Thanks for the ideas and experiences everyone.

I've found that turning bridge tone down to somewhere between 5 and 7 (hard to see on this guitar) and setting the amp to work nicely with that may be a solution. If the previous owner did that, it might explain the physical pickup adjustments, though they look really generic, neither pickup wildly high or low. The screws are all just about flush, really normal looking.

Here's the one of the shop's pics that shows the pickups best:
1664206297913.png
Still exploring.

One thing is clear though, this guitar is great, really like it!
 
Dave Merrill said:
Thanks for the ideas and experiences everyone.

I've found that turning bridge tone down to somewhere between 5 and 7 (hard to see on this guitar) and setting the amp to work nicely with that may be a solution. If the previous owner did that, it might explain the physical pickup adjustments, though they look really generic, neither pickup wildly high or low. The screws are all just about flush, really normal looking.

Here's the one of the shop's pics that shows the pickups best:
View attachment 108998
Still exploring.

One thing is clear though, this guitar is great, really like it!
Click to expand...
Actually it does look like the bridge pickup is closer to the strings than neck, at least from that pic, don't have the actual guitar out right now..

Makes me want to move neck closer.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Thanks for the ideas and experiences everyone.

I've found that turning bridge tone down to somewhere between 5 and 7 (hard to see on this guitar) and setting the amp to work nicely with that may be a solution. If the previous owner did that, it might explain the physical pickup adjustments, though they look really generic, neither pickup wildly high or low. The screws are all just about flush, really normal looking.

Here's the one of the shop's pics that shows the pickups best:
View attachment 108998
Still exploring.

One thing is clear though, this guitar is great, really like it!
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, this is what I've always done, with every guitar that has separate bridge tone. Where bridge tone also affects bridge + middle-or-neck, which so far has been all of them, I've just lived with that, but wished it wasn't that way, since I like those combinations bright.

For some reason, with this one, I initially thought that maneuver wasn't needed, maybe because it's clearly such a good guitar that maybe they cracked that bit of the code.

I'll try raising the neck screws a la @Joe Bfstplk, but if that doesn't work out, I'll go with the standard operating procedure I mentioned.

I'll still really like the guitar either way :)
 
Dave Merrill said:
Actually it does look like the bridge pickup is closer to the strings than neck, at least from that pic, don't have the actual guitar out right now..

Makes me want to move neck closer.
Click to expand...
The strings vibrate in a wider arc as you get farther from the bridge. If you want balanced volume from both pickups, your bridge pickup will have to be closer than your neck pickup.
 
Rex said:
The strings vibrate in a wider arc as you get farther from the bridge. If you want balanced volume from both pickups, your bridge pickup will have to be closer than your neck pickup.
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... if the pickups are wound the same way. Many pickups come in bridge and neck versions to compensate for this.
 
Rex said:
Even then, you usually wind up with the neck pickup lower after you balance levels.
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Yes. It's physics. They can compensate somewhat with different windings or magnets, but still the strings will beat on the pickup if it's too close.
 
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