What to do when a luthier doesn't deliver?

vaultnaemsae

Inspired
<<EDIT: This guitar finally arrived on the 22nd Jan 2018.>>

Hi Board Members,

Has anybody here ever commissioned a luthier to build a guitar and then not had the luthier deliver on the deal? I’m Australian (currently living in Sydney). I have ordered/paid in part for a custom build from a luthier in California but he hasn’t come through on his end of the deal. Any ideas how to deal with this legally in the state of California? If you’re at all interested I’ve written a fairly detailed outline of the situation below. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

The barebones full story (If you like long stories):
Back in April 2013, during the time when I lived in East Asia, I ordered a custom guitar from a luthier who has a reputation for quality builds (but as it later became clear not for punctuality). After first contact we backed and forwarded over the specs/design for a couple of weeks. Finally, we reached an agreement (all via email mind you) and he quoted a price and an 18 month wait for completion/delivery. For me, it was/is an expensive guitar and I placed my trust in this guy based on his reputation as a world class builder. This guitar was meant to be the guitar to replace all my others so I proceeded with making the down payment at 50% of the agreed price for the build with the idea in my head that I’d be selling all my other guitars over the next year and a half. I remember the international bank transfer fees and the weak Korean won at the time really put a dent in my wallet! Ouch…but I clung to the thought of playing one of his much ballyhooed guitars...

After 12 months he advised that he was behind schedule for the due delivery period. It didn’t really phase me so much at the time but he kept presenting with more and more excuses for delays. Some of them seemed pretty understandable and I like to think I’m pretty reasonable so I just let it slide believing that it would be finished soon enough. I had other stuff on my plate too.

But as time continued to pass by with no results I started to worry about it, a lot! So I tried to get in contact with him to get some answers. The guy doesn’t really answer his telephone so it was terribly difficult to get in touch with him. Also the time difference made it really difficult. His email responses can take up to 2-3 months to arrive if at all.

As it happened, I was in the US in September 2015. I was thinking about just turning up at his workshop to see what was happening but that wasn’t necessary as I finally got to speak to him on the phone. He assured me the guitar would be ready by January 2016. I went back to Korea and sold a couple of guitars and some studio gear to prep for the upcoming final payments. He sent some pics of the instrument in progress but of course, he didn’t come through as promised.

Over the following months we would have periods of communication and I did (possibly quiet annoyingly for him) change my mind on some electronics in the build. In my defence, this was mostly because he was running so late that guitar technology was changing and moving forward in leaps and bounds.

Time rolled on and he contacted me requesting another 25% payment last October. I was feeling over a barrel but not able to 'not pay' him as I wanted the guitar finished and the finished guitar. He promptly went off the air after receiving payment again.

Since then we’ve had some heated words via email where I really lost my shit. I got his attention if nothing else. Now I pretty much have no way to contact him since he will not reply to my emails and doesn’t answer his phone. He did seem apologetic for the delays and has claimed the guitar is going ahead and represents his 'best work' but he has given me nothing concrete re: completion. I’m sure the guy has had some challenging times and all BUT the long and short of it all is that he still hasn’t delivered the guitar in late June 2017 (over 4 years) despite him having 75% of my payments in his pocket.

What should I do?

I suppose it’s weird that I’m posting this here because it’s a fairly personal issue but I’m not really sure about how to proceed with this guy. He's a human and he's a artist but he's also got a responsibility here. It’s rather embarrassing to admit I've got myself in this situation - I’m kind of clutching at any advice that may come from one of the many musicians who read this forum, especially the Americans amongst us. Also, I guess some of you might know the guy and can deduce his identity from the story. Any advice for how to deal with this situation to reach a win win outcome?
 
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Sounds like a whole lot of nightmare. 4 years?? Is he growing the feckin' trees for the wood?

Instinct makes me want to quickly move on from this post and say nothing ... this forum/board is probably not really the place for the discussion .... but since no names have been mentioned and I had a hard day at work and feel beligerent ........

(all below is just my personal opinion - consider that my disclaimer!)

In your shoes I'd be thinking I'd have 2 main avenues - play hard or play soft.

Playing soft would be trying to cool the whole thing down and let him receive a few reconcilliatory emails from you and maybe he'll open up communication channels again. Then try and get him to give you a realistic but firm date of completion and if OK agree to it and tell him you'll be off his case until that time. Even if he doesn't keep his end at least you've more email evidence to use if it goes to any form of litigation. Emails are generally acceptable as forms of evidence - plus you've got bank transfer records to back them up.

But I'd definitely say no more payments to him until you have a completion statement from him and a pic of the guitar in it's case and a pic/scan of the delivery documents with your name and address on it and even a tracking code. (Maybe consider using an escrow service too for the final payment - you receive the guitar as specified and instruct the escrow service to release the money).

It sounds like the soft approach is maybe a bit too little too late now ...... from your narrative it certainly sounds like this guy is abusing your custom and with you geolocated so far away he thinks he can just jerk you about with relative impunity.

AKA He's taking the piss.

Playing hard could invovle several methods;

Outing him by name and your misgivings on several guitar related forums (not specific product manufacturers ones like here though) or social media - word will likely reach him and leave you with hopefully a satisfactory post script in that you can say all misunderstanding has been resolved and you've got a wonderful new guitar.

It's not a particularly 'nice' way to do things and for the most part it's simply your word against his - but the bad press will hurt him more than you if it goes on too long. It can go against you too of course ... you get labelled as a troll or he might just dig his heels in even more knowing he's got plenty of backorders to work on.

Taking 75% of the money and then being silent with you is him already being 'not nice' so morally you shouldn't feel too bad stirring it up a bit regardless of his personal situation. He's in breach of his original 18 month delivery statement - he's still trading I assume - he's the perp.

Or play a bit harder, maybe just search for a local solicitors/counselor/attorney office near him and consider hiring them to send him a 'concerned' letter requesting all remaining details on the build completion and delivery date. Costs to you would only be the cost of the letter and them forwarding you the reply which might not be too bad (ask for a firm quote though before hiring ...... legal headed letters can cost trully stupid money with some legal firms). Usually a letter like that makes quite a few people sit up and take notice not knowing what could be coming next.

I've no idea what your actual legal standing would be as a non-US citizen should it need to go further - that's something you'd maybe need to take legal counsel on. Nearest Aussie Embassy to the luthier worth contacting maybe for some free pointers?

It sounds like there is a fair old amount of money involved in this build so I'd personally be playing very hard at this stage .... he'd be seeing my face pretty close to his in the near future regardless of travel costs - call it a working holiday ;)
 
Has this builder been outed at TGP? Either way, this situation has been extensively dealt with over there and I'm sure you could find good/useful info and a strategy.
 
Just wait, is all I think you could do other than getting a lawyer involved. It's a small world, so if it's a small builder, one pissed off customer could do lots of damage for his business. Small builders cant afford that kind of negative press. I would have personally lost my shit too. Almost warrants a visit to California for a beat down.
 
As @ieso mentioned, this has happened to lots of guitar and amp custom builds.

I hate to say it, but I would be 'outing' him on all public forums until he made good.

I had a friend that have a similar problem with an amp builder.
The only way he got his money back was by making it pubic on one of the forums.
It's not a good feeling when you have to do that, but I think that is your only leverage (unless you hire legal council, which may cost you more than the guitar).
You're not going to fly here, and let's be honest...if you were in his shop, what could you do? Fight him? That's not going to get your money back and will likely get YOU in trouble.
The only way (I see) that you can give him a reason to 'give you the attention you deserve' is to threaten his livelihood.
And the way to threaten his livelihood....social media.
 
Has this builder been outed at TGP? Either way, this situation has been extensively dealt with over there and I'm sure you could find good/useful info and a strategy.

To be clear, I posted this exact same thread on 4 forums: FAS, V-Guitar, TGP, Gearslutz. I hoped to get some kind of useful strategy for dealing with it and I can already see that others have similar stories to my own and legal action or social media outing are the only strategies likely to have any effect.

And some people put two and two together on TGP so anybody who wants to identify the luthier can just look at that thread with the same title and follow the link. Perhaps the post was out of place on the FAS forum but I posted here as I'm a more regular member on this forum, and the is 'The Lounge'.

Thanks for all of your input. It has confirmed for me that I need to seek legal advice and also reminded me that I'm not the only one these kind of things happen to.
 
Did you get the agreement in writing in the form of an itemized quote or estimate? Did you get receipts for the down payments? If you've got paperwork, it's time to call a lawyer threaten a lawsuit if he doesn't refund your money. Being an international issue, things probably get a lot more complicated.
 
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Stories like this is why I avoid so-called "made to order" custom items. It's really a crapshoot as to whether you'll get timely delivery or delivery at all.

I know that a Masterbuilt guitar from the Fender Custom Shop can take years to deliver, but this is expected ahead of time and Fender is a well-known company that, unlike a lone builder, can't simply disappear.

I really hope you get this resolved. I wish you all the best.
 
Bummer. As a friendly suggestion, I would seek legal advice from an attorney familiar with international litigation. It would probably not cost a lot of money to at least get a consultation. Preparing to litigate is VERY costly, but a consultation, not so much. At least after speaking with a qualified attorney you will have a better grasp of your situation and possible remedies. I would be careful about trashing him on social media, as doing so might just further complicate the issue. What you really want to to resolve it.

After a consultation, if you have a case, your attorney might prepare and send the luthier a strongly worded letter, again at a minimal fee. Quite often, the threat of litigation may be enough to get the luthier to honor your agreement. If you have a strong paper trail, and the luthier knows you have a strong paper trail, your threat of litigation should include the costs of your attorney's fees, and litigation costs. Even without knowing how much you paid for your guitar build, I absolutely think that litigation for an international dispute will cost you way more than you paid for the guitar. Further, typical litigation is 3 to 5 years. Just my $0.02, but I assure you, before I retired, I was professionally involved in many, many lawsuits. The only people involved in litigation that are in their happy zone are the lawyers. Everyone else is dipped in misery, and bleeding money.
 
I ordered a custom guitar from a luthier who has a reputation for quality builds

I'm curious about a side fact, and that's where this reputation was held and by whom. In other words who told you that the individual in question was a quality luthier and how much corroborative evidence did you have in hand prior to committing money to a project such ads this from an overseas vendor? Think like a lawyer.
 
Chances are the business you want to sue doesn't exist anymore. If the company you dealt with filed for bankruptcy then you're unlikely to have any legal recourse and your money is gone.
 
If it's who I think it is, the guy built guitars for the likes of Allan Holdsworth. He did have a sterling rep at one time.
 
I have no advice how you should go about solving the issue. Just want to express my sympathies. It really sucks and it hurts all serious builders out there...
I've bought a few custom guitars through the years and the only advice I can give is to research the builder thoroughly online and ask a million questions on email, you will get a feeling for their sincerity and interest. If they take long time to answer questions or seem sloppy as if they haven't read your questions carefully, I would move on.
My latest build was from the russian guy Padalka... 100% great experience. I bombarded him with emails during 2 months. He answered quick with a lot of details, threw in his own suggestions and even steered me away from some of my own ideas. After I decided for specific pieces of wood, he sometimes sent me pics of other pieces he got in, saying I could still change. Simply put, he seemed interested and gave a great impression.
He kept his timeline basically to the day and the guitar was totally flawless... Better than I could ask for.
It's a pity some builders will make people who's thinking of getting custom builds hesitate...

One advice though: You haven't heard from him but have you read other people still having contact with him and having builds made as we speak? Who knows, he might be deceased or seriously ill?
 
Well, since you are probably going to have to get a attorney involved. I would suggest trying to get back your money instead. I would not trust anything from him at this point. The threat of a attorney may just prompt him to throw something together quickly. Have you seen photos of the progress? if any.
If you have seen no photos of the work in progress, you stand a good chance of getting your money back (full amount).
Keep in mind I am no attorney. Just know someone who went threw a similar situation.

John
 
I had a sutuation like this years ago and organised my documentation and submitted a claim un small claims court. Also paid the extea fee to have a marshal deliver the court summons to the person. That got my upfront money and all supplies returned... bam!
 
I had a sutuation like this years ago and organised my documentation and submitted a claim un small claims court. Also paid the extea fee to have a marshal deliver the court summons to the person. That got my upfront money and all supplies returned... bam!

Him being overseas complicates things big time... he luthier could tell him to pound sand and might get away with it...

My advice- is don't be vague- call people out on their shit... name names
 
Your story is very close to the same experience a close friend of mine had with a SoCal luthier. I notice you're not giving any names, so I won't either. He finally ended up going to his place of business. He walked in the front door and asked someone there if "he" was there and was told no he wasn't. So he went around to the back to a screen door and his wife walked up and and said "Hi XXX, how's it going?" He came to the door and opened it to say hi and my friend walked in. He said he was physically shaken when he introduced himself and promised to have the guitar finished within the month. My friend told him "I'm showing up on this day to pick up my guitar." He actually got 2 emails postponing the date by a couple weeks and was told the guitar shipped. When he received the guitar, it had some finish flaws so he personally took it back and told him he wanted it fixed. He blamed it on his "paint guy" and said he'd fix it. 2 weeks later he got his guitar. It left such a bad taste in his mouth, he put it out on reverb to get his money back. It's listed now. He says it's a beautiful guitar and sounds and plays great, but the experience turned him off.
 
PM me the name of the builder if you don't want to out him here.
I make guitar parts for a living, and do work for several people in CA. If I do work for him, I have no problem leaning on him a bit, if you want.
 
Personally I would never order a custom built of that magnitude outside my country. I prefer to use a local luthier for such things, one who I could always easily visit and talk things over in person. Or retrieve my goods from.
 
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