What models have the most obvious swirl?

[mba]

It's a question for the beta testers or Cliff.

 

[Scott Peterson]

You'll have to define what 'swirl' is to you. It's an abstract subjective adjective for sound.

 

[DonPetersen]

I think it's right between fizz and oomph.

 

[mba]

That's the term employed by Cliff.
When you play notes/chord specially with crunch tones it doesn't interrupt the last notes/chord you just played. It is as if the last notes/chords are turning for a short time into the amp.
It happens very well into my Marshall PA, it's even like a small reverb.
It was hearable in your first sample, Vox part.

 

[Scott Peterson]

That's the term employed by Cliff.
When you play notes/chord specially with crunch tones it doesn't interrupt the last notes/chord you just played. It is as if the last notes/chords are turning for a short time into the amp.
It happens very well into my Marshall PA, it's even like a small reverb.
It was hearable in your first sample, Vox part.

Well, then it's in the Axe-FX AC-30TB amp block then.

 

[Randalljax]

probably your class a amps .the AC15, 30 , DrZ

 

[mba]

By experience tubes play a role. So you can have it...or not.
The fact that cliff models tube's characteristics now plays probably a role.

 

[rhinoceros]

i went back and listened to it i cant hear it.

 

[mba]

I can't find the sample give me the link.

 

[kerrlehr]

This reminds me of those abstract pictures that supposedly had abe lincoln or such in them if you let your eyes relax while you stare long enough at them. Ahh there it is, "swirl"

 

[mba]

Somebody has posted this picture here, thinking it was smart. He was probably ignoring what cliff had said.

Here is what Cliff said about the first record of scott :

If you listen closely you'll hear the "swirl" in the AC-30 part. That's another part of G2.

So you can think that it is bullshit but prior to this comment there was mine which try to describe what i've heard new :

What impressed me with this sample is the fact that you can hear the sound sustaining into the amplifier between two chords, like the real deal with good amplifiers and old tubes and it's new. I am clear?

I had no idea what was swirl and after having looked into my dictionnary i thought he had talked about the same thing.
If you can't hear it...you can't and you probably never pay attention to that. If you are a metal player, i'm not surprised.

My question is not innocent. By experience it's related to the tubes (perhaps not only the tubes but tubes are very important).
Because now intrinsic parameters of tubes are modeled we will perhaps have, in a futur firmware, a control of this swirl.
Swirl should allow to have glorious crunches and little more on rythm sounds.


What makes me afraid today is that many players prefer the straight sound of the Axe 1, probably metal players.
I hope that Cliff will not try to please them. The swirl is IMO a step forward and you have enough tools into the Axe if you like square distorsions.
I'm really curious to listen to the crunch of the Vox model, the Axe plugged into a VHT and into a real cab. You should have something nice and new compared to the Axe I.

 

[KG MD]

It makes sense that if the amp modelling is now broken down into the individual components (phase inverter, transformer, tubes), it should be possible in a later firmware release to include the tube type as a parameter. I haven't been glued to the forum recently (too much silliness, IMO), but haven't seen this mentioned.

KG

 

[mba]

Here.

Yes, that was one of the reasons. As you listen to clips from modelers what you start to recognize is a certain "stationary" aspect to the tone compared to the every-changing tonality of a tube amp.

Another thing is finger response. With a good tube amp you can vary the tone quite a bit just by how you fret the note and attack it. Modelers tend to make every note sound the same.

So I tested some hypotheses and came to the conclusion that it's because a real vacuum tube has a transfer function that is not static. The transfer function is dependent on time, frequency and amplitude. Where you really hear it is in the in-between regions where the tube is just starting to distort.

At first I tried some dynamic transfer functions but that was a lesson in futility. So then I created the VVT stuff. In VVT there is an actual vacuum-tube replica in software. You enter the values of the resistors and capacitors on the grid, cathode, etc. and it behaves just like a tube complete with Miller effect, cathode memory, etc. The problem is that it requires an obscene amount of horsepower so the only solution was a dedicated DSP.

The other big part of the G2 sound is the output transformer modeling. The OT distorts and as it distorts its inductance decreases which changes the bandwidth and loop characteristics.