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What makes more sense: FC-12 or Behringer FCB1010 for at home use only?

DLW

Inspired
I got a lot of great info on asking what else do I need with AXE 3 purchase. Looking at the monitor and FR/FR recommended and done research on price and reviews. Planning on studio monitors. Looking at 2-4 Eris 8’s or 2 Adam A7’s. Drooling over Adam A77’s.

I only play at home now.

Debating on what I really need and should spend on a FBC. The idea of the Behringer FBC with a Eureka prom 3.0 update chip seems a way to put more money towards monitors. I learned that compared to use with AXE 2 where you can use two cables with AXE 3 can only use one cable and functions are less so that is concerning.

Other option is the Fractal FCB 12.

I do not know all of what these controllers do and a lot of it I would learn to understand once messing with the unit.

Is the Fractal unit something really geared more toward live playing/band situation? For home use would the Behringer with the Eurekaprom updated chip do everything I need or would I likely regret not getting the Fractal unit? With discounts, options of used and shipping and tax blah blah if I am a cheap bastard I could probably save close to $450 going with the Behringer unit.

Thank you!
 

JoKeR III

Power User
The Axe III / FC-6 combo-deal would be my choice if I were looking to buy right now. Having used the FC-6 live and at home, I don't see a scenario where the FC-12 would be that much more beneficial for home use.
 
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Wrohme

Member
Both will be able to do whatever you need them to do in a live situation. Both are very well built, although I’m guessing the Fractal wins on build quality (I’ve never used a FC). I do have the FCB1010 and here’s what I would say about it – you can’t go wrong with it if you can get over the learning curve of programming it.

The good:
  • The FCB can be had for under $100 used (I think I scored mine for $60) – that’s a huge savings over a brand new FC-12.
  • They are built well and can certainly hold up to stage use.
  • It has 2 built in expression pedals – huge bonus in my view with all the parameters in the Axe that you can control (also saves you a few more bucks if you were going to buy separate expression pedals).
  • There is a fairly decent amount of info online supporting it (lots of posts on this forum) and even free desktop software to make programming it easier.

The bad:
  • Programming it is not plug in play, the learning curve can be steep if you’re not familiar with Midi. When I started programming mine it took a lot of reading, watching youtube videos and trial and error. I’d say it took me 3-4 days of my free time reading forum posts (here and in other places), watching youtube videos and experimenting to figure out the programming and wrap my head around midi (total n00b). That said, once I did, it worked exactly as I wanted to. No prom chip upgrade needed, the standard (last gen) stock chip worked just fine. The software editor was a huge help and in the end, once I understood the midi side of things, it was easy. If I ever have to reprogram it, I'm confident I can do it quickly.
  • It’s ugly – at least to me it is. It’s big, bulky, foot switches look dated. The gray finish of it doesn’t do anything for me. This has nothing to do with functionality, but the Fractal is sexy, the Behringer is not.

I’ll let those more informed on the FC-12 give more depth to this, but to the best of my understanding, the Fractal has….
  • Scribble strips above each switch. That’s a super handy feature
  • Some advanced functionality that would be difficult if not impossible to replicate with the FCB1010 (maybe, not 100% sure on this)
  • Plug and play functionality - customize via Axe Edit
  • A smaller footprint than the FCB1010
  • Midi & power run along 1 XLR cable (versus 2 separate ones on the FCB1010)
  • I’m sure there are other important differences, but those are the ones that jump out to me (along with the build quality and visual appeal).

The price difference made it a no brainer for me. At the time, an extra $600 for a foot controller just didn’t make sense. The FC-12 is a great controller by all measures, and I totally want one. If they ever go on sale or I come across a used one at a good price, I will have to have a bloody fight with my GAS to not buy it. If I was choosing between better monitors and a FC-12 – well, I’ve already given you my answer. Adding $600 to your monitor budget is a big difference. If you can deal with the programming of the FCB there is no reason not to buy a used one.

p.s. An aftermarket prom chip is kind of unnecessary in my view, the last gen OEM one works just fine with the Axe III.
 
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addedc

Experienced
Above posts are great direction. As a person who used an FCB1010 when I started, I will just add that while there is a ton of online help, it was not easy for a Noob like me to program it. Took a lot of time and frustration. That said, I agree with above and would bite that bullet again if it meant being able to have better monitors.
 
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DLW

Inspired
Thank you for the detail. I appreciate it. It helps.

Are you running the Behringer FBC into an AFX3 or another version?

I ask because you mentioned the 2 cables needed. When I looked thru the Eureka website it said that with AXE 3 the Behringer unit does not work with the 2 cables and only one because the AXE 3 is different in some way than earlier AXE models and with only able to use the one cable the functions are limited compared to being able to use the 2 cables. Do not know whats limited but they were basically putting a disclaimer out there saying do not expect it to work with version 3 like other ACE units.
 

DLW

Inspired
Forgot to quote on my above response ....
Both will be able to do whatever you need them to do in a live situation. Both are very well built, although I’m guessing the Fractal wins on build quality (I’ve never used a FC). I do have the FCB1010 and here’s what I would say about it – you can’t go wrong with it if you’re get over the learning curve of programming it.

The good:
  • The FCB can be had for under $100 used (I think I scored mine for $60) – that’s a huge savings over a brand new FC-12.
  • They are built well and can certainly hold up to stage use. I
  • It has 2 built in expression pedals – huge bonus in my view with all the parameters in the Axe that you can control (also saves you a few more bucks if you were going to buy separate expression pedals).
  • There is a fairly decent amount of info online supporting it (lots of posts on this forum) and even free desktop software to make programming it easier.

The bad:
  • Programming it is not plug in play, the learning curve can be steep if you’re not familiar with Midi. When I started programming mine it took a lot of reading, watching youtube videos and trial and error. I’d say it took me 3-4 days of my free time reading forum posts (here and in other places), watching youtube videos and experimenting to figure out the programming and wrap my head around midi (total n00b). That said, once I did, it worked exactly as I wanted to. No prom chip upgrade needed, the standard (last gen) stock chip worked just fine. The software editor was a huge help and in the end, once I understood the midi side of things, it was easy. If I ever have to reprogram it, it will be easy.
  • It’s ugly – at least to me it is. It’s big, bulky, foot switches look dated. The gray finish of it doesn’t do anything for me. This has nothing to do with functionality, but the Fractal is sexy, the Behringer is not.

I’ll let those more informed on the FC-12 give more depth to this, but to the best of my understanding, the Fractal has….
  • Scribble strips above each switch. That’s a super handy feature
  • Some advanced functionality that would be difficult if not impossible to replicate with the FCB1010 (maybe, not 100% sure on this)
  • Plug and play functionality - customize via Axe Edit
  • A smaller footprint than the FCB1010
  • Midi & power run along 1 XLR cable (versus 2 separate ones on the FCB1010)
  • I’m sure there are other important differences, but those are the ones that jump out to me (along with the build quality and visual appeal).

The price difference made it a no brainer for me. At the time, an extra $600 for a foot controller just didn’t make sense. The FC-12 is a great controller by all measures, and I totally want one. If they ever go on sale or I come across a used one at a good price, I will have to have a bloody fight with my GAS to not buy it. If I was choosing between better monitors and a FC-12 – well, I’ve already given you my answer. Adding $600 to your monitor budget is a big difference. If you can deal with the programming of the FCB there is no reason not to buy a used one.

p.s. An aftermarket prom chip is kind of unnecessary in my view, the last gen OEM one works just fine with the Axe III.

What AXE unit are you using the FBC1010 with? Thanks!
 

reini

Inspired
I can recommend the FC12 - I got mine a few weeks ago and it is easy to configure and works flawless! If money is an issue I would skip the footcontroller and and use the money to get high quality studio monitors. If you, as you mentioned, just play at home you are sitting most likely right in front of the III.
 
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dongzo

Experienced
The FCB1010 has quite a lot a limitations compared to the FC12 and is a pain to program, but if you only need it for the simple stuff...switch scenes/presets... and if you're ok with the mediocre build-in foot-controllers, go for the FCB.
I used mine for 8 month after selling my AXE-II + MK1, waiting for the FC12 and it was ok...no more...no less.
If you have the money and want to satisfy your GAS...go for the FC12. I love mine and will never go back :)
 
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Wrohme

Member
Thank you for the detail. I appreciate it. It helps.

Are you running the Behringer FBC into an AFX3 or another version?

I ask because you mentioned the 2 cables needed. When I looked thru the Eureka website it said that with AXE 3 the Behringer unit does not work with the 2 cables and only one because the AXE 3 is different in some way than earlier AXE models and with only able to use the one cable the functions are limited compared to being able to use the 2 cables. Do not know whats limited but they were basically putting a disclaimer out there saying do not expect it to work with version 3 like other ACE units.

I'm using it with the Axe III. What I meant by 2 cables was the power cable and the midi cable. I know there is a kit out there for the behringer where you can run power and midi over 1 cable (an ethernet cable I think), but it seemed kind of clunky and wasn't a necessity to me. The way fractal does it (running power and midi through and XLR) is slick. For my needs, running one cable is fine - I don't need the Axe to send messages to the FCB1010, I just need the FCB1010 to send message to the Axe. I can change presets, scenes, use the tuner, looper, expression pedals etc. Maybe there are some functions where you need the Axe to send a message to the FCB, but they're beyond me at the moment.
 

DLW

Inspired
I'm using it with the Axe III. What I meant by 2 cables was the power cable and the midi cable. I know there is a kit out there for the behringer where you can run power and midi over 1 cable (an ethernet cable I think), but it seemed kind of clunky and wasn't a necessity to me. The way fractal does it (running power and midi through and XLR) is slick. For my needs, running one cable is fine - I don't need the Axe to send messages to the FCB1010, I just need the FCB1010 to send message to the Axe. I can change presets, scenes, use the tuner, looper, expression pedals etc. Maybe there are some functions where you need the Axe to send a message to the FCB, but they're beyond me at the moment.

Cool. Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. All right. Will do some thinking it over.

Thanks everyone!
 

JamesBWood

Inspired
Both will be able to do whatever you need them to do in a live situation. Both are very well built, although I’m guessing the Fractal wins on build quality (I’ve never used a FC). I do have the FCB1010 and here’s what I would say about it – you can’t go wrong with it if you can get over the learning curve of programming it.

The good:
  • The FCB can be had for under $100 used (I think I scored mine for $60) – that’s a huge savings over a brand new FC-12.
  • They are built well and can certainly hold up to stage use.
  • It has 2 built in expression pedals – huge bonus in my view with all the parameters in the Axe that you can control (also saves you a few more bucks if you were going to buy separate expression pedals).
  • There is a fairly decent amount of info online supporting it (lots of posts on this forum) and even free desktop software to make programming it easier.

The bad:
  • Programming it is not plug in play, the learning curve can be steep if you’re not familiar with Midi. When I started programming mine it took a lot of reading, watching youtube videos and trial and error. I’d say it took me 3-4 days of my free time reading forum posts (here and in other places), watching youtube videos and experimenting to figure out the programming and wrap my head around midi (total n00b). That said, once I did, it worked exactly as I wanted to. No prom chip upgrade needed, the standard (last gen) stock chip worked just fine. The software editor was a huge help and in the end, once I understood the midi side of things, it was easy. If I ever have to reprogram it, I'm confident I can do it quickly.
  • It’s ugly – at least to me it is. It’s big, bulky, foot switches look dated. The gray finish of it doesn’t do anything for me. This has nothing to do with functionality, but the Fractal is sexy, the Behringer is not.

I’ll let those more informed on the FC-12 give more depth to this, but to the best of my understanding, the Fractal has….
  • Scribble strips above each switch. That’s a super handy feature
  • Some advanced functionality that would be difficult if not impossible to replicate with the FCB1010 (maybe, not 100% sure on this)
  • Plug and play functionality - customize via Axe Edit
  • A smaller footprint than the FCB1010
  • Midi & power run along 1 XLR cable (versus 2 separate ones on the FCB1010)
  • I’m sure there are other important differences, but those are the ones that jump out to me (along with the build quality and visual appeal).

The price difference made it a no brainer for me. At the time, an extra $600 for a foot controller just didn’t make sense. The FC-12 is a great controller by all measures, and I totally want one. If they ever go on sale or I come across a used one at a good price, I will have to have a bloody fight with my GAS to not buy it. If I was choosing between better monitors and a FC-12 – well, I’ve already given you my answer. Adding $600 to your monitor budget is a big difference. If you can deal with the programming of the FCB there is no reason not to buy a used one.

p.s. An aftermarket prom chip is kind of unnecessary in my view, the last gen OEM one works just fine with the Axe III.

I'm using the FCB1010 with my Axe-FX II XL. Mine is updated with the Eureka EPROM. If I'm not mistaken, many of the basic functions (Preset, Scene Change) are compatible with the Axe-FX III. That said - I bought an FC-12 and an EV-1 for my AF3. :)

jbw
 
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Chad Beattie

Experienced
I used an FCB1010 for a long time until the FC's came out. While it worked fine, I can't imagine going back to it now after using the FC-12 and EV-1. Even if just for home use.
 
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jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
At this point, it's really a matter of whether you can afford to part with the money in getting the new FC-6/12, or whether you have more time on your hands with which to jab yourself in the eyeball learning how to program the FCB1010, especially if you're a MIDI programming newb. No doubt about it, the FCB1010 will be able to do the job for low $$$, but that's where I'd say most of the appeal starts and ends....this coming from a long-time FCB1010 user.

The Fractal controller pedals will be infinitely easier to understand and program, so, much less frustrating. Now, all that said, programming the FCB1010 is just like anything else: once you've got how it's done, it becomes fairly routine - of course, taking into consideration its inherent limitations and tricky learning curve. Cheap. Not sexy in any way, shape, or form.
 
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DLW

Inspired
Thank you! I am getting closer to pulling the trigger. Deciding between FC6/12 vs FCB1010 and between monitors. I was actually adding up totals and weighing things tonight so great timing with the post.

I like the idea of the FCB1010 as a one stop shop with 2 expression pedals included for cheap but I am brand new to all of this and have no clue about MIDI so even if I researched how to program it or buy the upgrade chip and maybe a little easier to program its still limited in that it can only use one cable with the AXE III and I would have to tape labels on it and still limited function. Plus I doubt the pedals are as good or have the same feel as a Fractal or Mission pedal. Do not know but I doubt it. Trying to talk myself out of the cheap bastard I can be.

Extra time spent with the FCB1010 would take away from learning on the AXE and playing and my time is limited. Also I play at home and never need a volume pedal just a wah so one pedal should be fine for now at least.

So now I am leaning hard in the direction of FC6 and that white Mission CB signature pedal unless there is a more recommended pedal. Possibly the FC12 but I really do not know or understand what the other 6 buttons do yet. Have to learn about that and understand. Trying to make the right purchase. The sale is making it hard not to pull the trigger.

It really seems like I should just sell some more stuff off and get a FC that was made for the AXE especially being new and starting with the III.
 
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I have FCB1010, MFC-101 and FC-12. I initially used FCB1010 with AFX II, it basically did it work but I got MFC then which was much more reliable with AFX II, When I got AFX III, I checked FCB with it, but I was not happy with it, I found a tutorial how to program MFC to work with AFX III and it was much better, but it was not the same as MFC/AFX II combination. Finally I got FC-12, I does the brilliant work, it has much more features than MFC/ AFX II combination.

The cons for FCB:
pedals were not working as I expected, I tried any mods but nothing helped so finally I did not used them. The programming (I put there UNO chip) was not easy and took some time to get through it and make it working with Fractal. I had a 10 power and 10 m MIDI cables that was also not comfortable for handling.

The pros for FCB:
cheap
 

VidarAus

Experienced
I have FCB1010, MFC-101 and FC-12. I initially used FCB1010 with AFX II, it basically did it work but I got MFC then which was much more reliable with AFX II, When I got AFX III, I checked FCB with it, but I was not happy with it, I found a tutorial how to program MFC to work with AFX III and it was much better, but it was not the same as MFC/AFX II combination. Finally I got FC-12, I does the brilliant work, it has much more features than MFC/ AFX II combination.

The cons for FCB:
pedals were not working as I expected, I tried any mods but nothing helped so finally I did not used them. The programming (I put there UNO chip) was not easy and took some time to get through it and make it working with Fractal. I had a 10 power and 10 m MIDI cables that was also not comfortable for handling.

The pros for FCB:
cheap
The UNO chip...is this made by Behringer or a third party? Are there any third party eprom chips for this board? If there are, and the underlying hardware/software is well known, I wonder if someone would male a chip which allowed better compatibility with the III? Or is there a hardware limitation?

There must be a firmware hacker out there somewhere looking for a project to play with ;)
 
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It was 3rd party ( I am not sure if not done by voes.be ). Few years ago there was UNO and Eureka available, I choose UNO because it was possible to download the file to program into chip. As far as I know Voes is building its own MIDI controllers, I am not sure if Eureka is still active.

I think FCB is hardware limited to have better compatibility with III, I am not sure if UNO or Eureka was not complete new chip software based on hardware - basically it is just MIDI controller. There are plenty of projects of MIDI controllers based on Arduino microcontroller (there is even topic of cheap 50$ MIDI controller in other controllers section), actually I am playing with arduino to build some kind of rack controller/editor like RAC-12 was for AFX II but with more posiibilities - but as I am time limited and fresh with Arduino it will take some time. For the moment I have basic one way MIDI control working.
 

peteri

Experienced
I started with a Morningstar box, which worked great and you could argue was all you really need.

I then got a FC6, and have just added a FC12.

Only home use, but I don't get much time to play - so I want to enjoy it when I do, and the FC series are so good.

The FC6 is a great gateway drug, and I could have stuck with that fine - it depends how you use the unit, recently I've moved a little away from scenes for everything into a more pedalboard way of doing things and for that the 12 is amazing
 

trb

Experienced
I have the fcb with eurekaprom 2 from my afx2 and now with afx3. Use it with 1 cable. Just have to use the afx3 front panel on midi to select the function to activate, push ´learn’, move a footswtich on fcb thats it.
for basic usage inc. expression pedals fcb is fine and work flawlessly.
For the monitor i use eris e5 to have small but great sounding device on the desk. In parallel of my poweramp matrix gm50 with 12’´ Frfr cab.
all connected to my motu 828es. With adfitional sub 10’´ or 12’´.
the E5 give me nice clear and punchy tone for my afx 3.
 

getlostinsound

Inspired
I have an FCB1010 with the Eureka PROM (version 2, I think?) that I used with my Axe FX II as well. As others have stated, programming the FBC in its factory state is a pain, but there isn’t really any programming needed with them Eureka. It’s fine for stomboxes, presets, and looper. I can’t remember whether it has a scenes mode, as I haven’t used it in a couple of years.

All that being said, I now have an Axe FX III with an FC-12 and FC-6 and it’s WAY BETTER, but if I had to choose between a high quality foot controller and a high quality monitoring solution, I would put the money into monitoring every time.
 
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