What is your approach when making new patches?

Toowoombaus

Member
Hi Guys,

so in the couple of months I've had the Axe FX ii I've spent a lot of time creating patches.

My approach has changed and evolved as I've gotten more familiar with everything. I'm having so much fun and getting some really great results.

I'm curious how other people with more experience than me approach making their patches.

So, how do you approach it?
Do you begin with an end result in mind?
Do you have certain "go to" things you do first like: roll off the bass, add a drive, pick a favorite IR etc?

Also, how far do you go?

Does anybody adjust the power amp bias, power tubes, presence frequency, mics and mic pre, room level?

What things do you take time to "dial in"? How do you get your favorite tones?
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Usually an end result in mind from the beginning, unless I’m just messing around and experimenting with FX-heavy tones.

Priority number one for me is always just finding the right IR. Once I find IRs I like I tend to stick with them, and I usually lean more towards using one or two IRs for all the different tones on a recording rather than several just for the sake of cohesiveness.

The only consistent go-to tweak I make is to use the low cut and high cut in the cab block. I use 150hz and 8khz with a -12db/oct slope for recording, same for live but with the high cut further down around 5-6khz depending on the room and volume level.

I almost never touch the advanced parameters, and I haven’t used any of the mic models in the cab block in several years. I far prefer IRs captured with the real mics in question rather than using mic modeling on IRs captured with flat reference mics. The Mic Pre section can be fun and useful for certain sounds, but for the tones I most often utilize I usually prefer to just keep things as clean as possible without any extra preamp saturation on top.

As far as actually dialing in the amp itself, I just stick to the basic bass/mid/treble and drive controls in most cases, and often I’ll end up just adjusting the drive and leaving everything else at default. Stuff like the Mark series is a bit more tricky to dial, but even with those I keep things as simple as possible and stick to the controls that would be on the real-life version of the amp.

The only other thing I think worth mentioning from a workflow perspective is that I make heavy use of the recall feature to import FX blocks from one preset to another. Once I get a certain delay/reverb/chorus/etc. that I like, I tend to use the same settings across different presets rather than dialing in unique FX settings from scratch for every patch.
 
I have a preconceived idea of the sound, tone and feel i'm after.

Once I home in on the amp ...ie Fenderish, Marshallish, Mesa Mark, Recto, ...etc ...& cab ir....

I tweak the basic controls ...drive, gain, BMT, MV (I leave MV at 10 if a non MV amp)...

Then I tweak the MV location, definition, DC/AC options...speaker comp/andor/speaker drive, EQ pre/post...etc ...not so much the other advance parameters.
 
Usually an end result in mind from the beginning, unless I’m just messing around and experimenting with FX-heavy tones.

Priority number one for me is always just finding the right IR. Once I find IRs I like I tend to stick with them, and I usually lean more towards using one or two IRs for all the different tones on a recording rather than several just for the sake of cohesiveness.

The only consistent go-to tweak I make is to use the low cut and high cut in the cab block. I use 150hz and 8khz with a -12db/oct slope for recording, same for live but with the high cut further down around 5-6khz depending on the room and volume level.

I almost never touch the advanced parameters, and I haven’t used any of the mic models in the cab block in several years. I far prefer IRs captured with the real mics in question rather than using mic modeling on IRs captured with flat reference mics. The Mic Pre section can be fun and useful for certain sounds, but for the tones I most often utilize I usually prefer to just keep things as clean as possible without any extra preamp saturation on top.

As far as actually dialing in the amp itself, I just stick to the basic bass/mid/treble and drive controls in most cases, and often I’ll end up just adjusting the drive and leaving everything else at default. Stuff like the Mark series is a bit more tricky to dial, but even with those I keep things as simple as possible and stick to the controls that would be on the real-life version of the amp.

The only other thing I think worth mentioning from a workflow perspective is that I make heavy use of the recall feature to import FX blocks from one preset to another. Once I get a certain delay/reverb/chorus/etc. that I like, I tend to use the same settings across different presets rather than dialing in unique FX settings from scratch for every patch.
I've never used the recall feature before. That's a good idea!
What kind of music do you play, and what kind of tones are you going for?
Are you using stock IR's or third party ones?
 
I have a preconceived idea of the sound, tone and feel i'm after.

Once I home in on the amp ...ie Fenderish, Marshallish, Mesa Mark, Recto, ...etc ...& cab ir....

I tweak the basic controls ...drive, gain, BMT, MV (I leave MV at 10 if a non MV amp)...

Then I tweak the MV location, definition, DC/AC options...speaker comp/andor/speaker drive, EQ pre/post...etc ...not so much the other advance parameters.

I haven't tried DC/AC or MV location yet. What is your fav MV location?
 
I've never used the recall feature before. That's a good idea!
What kind of music do you play, and what kind of tones are you going for?
Are you using stock IR's or third party ones?

Rock and metal mostly. I tend to lean towards Marshall-style amps like the Friedman and go for tight modern tones. I use ML IRs, lately the Mega OS and Mars Silver packs in particular.
 
I always kind of go in this order -
1. I have a tone in my head
2. I pick what guitar I want to use to accomplish that tone
3. I pick an amp
4. I go to the speaker page and adjust the 3 low res knobs to my cab res ( I use a real cab)
5. I only mess with the basic controls on the amp first - if need be, I go into GEQ page and take out unwanted freq- or add needed freq

Thats really about it for me - adding basic effects is usually the last thing - the icing on the cake.
If I find I'm doodling too long - I have the wrong amp for what I'm doing and pick another.
I have also been experimenting with using 2 amps - which for some reason I have ignored for the past 5 years...
I have found the right combo of amps can be killer.
 
If it is a tone that I've heard on a record:
  1. I google for the gear that the guitarist is using
  2. I replicate that gear on the Axe-FX.
  3. I got a tone that is cool but not close to the record.
  4. I record the original and my guitar in a DAW for reamping while A/B comparison
  5. I dig my head into the IR rabbit hole
  6. I cannot find a satisfactory IR
  7. I start messing with advanced parameters.
  8. I end up frustrated and playing other thing
  9. After few days, I listen to other tone that I like and go back to step #1
 
I haven't tried DC/AC or MV location yet. What is your fav MV location?
I go with the sound i’m after. I try the different locations and try to tweak with my eyes closed.

Sometimes I like the effect ....but I ask myself is that the sound i’m after?
 
I go with the sound i’m after. I try the different locations and try to tweak with my eyes closed.

Sometimes I like the effect ....but I ask myself is that the sound i’m after?

That sounds like a good approach. Some of those advanced parameters are extremely subtle.

Sometimes I’m afraid to mess around with the ones I don’t completely understand without reading the wiki first.
I just want to know what it is...
 
That sounds like a good approach. Some of those advanced parameters are extremely subtle.

Sometimes I’m afraid to mess around with the ones I don’t completely understand without reading the wiki first.
I just want to know what it is...
For sure! Which is a big portion of why it’s incredibly dang hard to “out grow” this thing!! :)
 
I just start with amp and cab. Lower a little bass and a little mids then adjust the gain.
Once i’m Happy all start adding bells n whistles
Is it bad that I never touch the master volume?
 
There are two reasons why I create a new patch. One is that I have a sound in mind. The other that I want to try a new amp or effect. Many years ago I settled on a standard patch structure. All my patches use the same structure, unless I have to delete blocks to release CPU cycles. I‘ve also settled on IRs, so that I get consistency between patches. Occasionally I try out new IRs, for example when Ownhammer releases something which excites my interest. If I make an IR change then it gets promulgated across all my live patches.

Which is a long way round to explaining that I always start a new patch from a copy of an old one.
 
There are two reasons why I create a new patch. One is that I have a sound in mind. The other that I want to try a new amp or effect. Many years ago I settled on a standard patch structure. All my patches use the same structure, unless I have to delete blocks to release CPU cycles. I‘ve also settled on IRs, so that I get consistency between patches. Occasionally I try out new IRs, for example when Ownhammer releases something which excites my interest. If I make an IR change then it gets promulgated across all my live patches.

Which is a long way round to explaining that I always start a new patch from a copy of an old one.
So how many patches have you created that you use?
I have about 25 that I made from scratch, and now I've started saving templates.

I got some Ownhammer IRs and they are pretty consistent. I'm spending a lot less time choosing an IR.

I'm slowly working my way through the advanced parameters along with the wiki.
 
Rock and metal mostly. I tend to lean towards Marshall-style amps like the Friedman and go for tight modern tones. I use ML IRs, lately the Mega OS and Mars Silver packs in particular.

I was thinking about picking up the ML Silver sounds like you and I are going for the same kind of tones.
I’m noticing that a lot of the Ownhammers sound similar and I want some variety.
Of the two which do you like the best?
 
I was thinking about picking up the ML Silver sounds like you and I are going for the same kind of tones.
I’m noticing that a lot of the Ownhammers sound similar and I want some variety.
Of the two which do you like the best?

For my own tastes I lean more towards the Mesa sound for that iconic richness and depth, but I’m really digging the Silver for stuff more in the hard rock and hair metal vein too.

I don’t like to throw around the word “scooped” too much since that can have negative connotations, both packs are really mid-focused and mix-ready as is all of ML’s stuff, but the Mesa definitely has a bit of smooth scoop to it in comparison to the more neutral midrange of the Silver.

The multi-mic mixes in the Mesa pack are also a bit more oriented towards the kind of modern metal sounds I like, whereas with the Silver I find myself just using a single mic 57 IR for raw aggressive tones.

So, hard to go wrong either way I think, just depends where your preference is in regards to the whole USA vs UK sound (though to be fair the Silver definitely isn’t the “typical” Brit sound due to the old V30s in it rather than Greenbacks).
 
For my own tastes I lean more towards the Mesa sound for that iconic richness and depth, but I’m really digging the Silver for stuff more in the hard rock and hair metal vein too.

I don’t like to throw around the word “scooped” too much since that can have negative connotations, both packs are really mid-focused and mix-ready as is all of ML’s stuff, but the Mesa definitely has a bit of smooth scoop to it in comparison to the more neutral midrange of the Silver.

The multi-mic mixes in the Mesa pack are also a bit more oriented towards the kind of modern metal sounds I like, whereas with the Silver I find myself just using a single mic 57 IR for raw aggressive tones.

So, hard to go wrong either way I think, just depends where your preference is in regards to the whole USA vs UK sound (though to be fair the Silver definitely isn’t the “typical” Brit sound due to the old V30s in it rather than Greenbacks).

Thanks for the explanation. I got the Silver last night and was up until 3:00 a.m. swapping IR's on my favorite presets I've made.

Earlier in the day I got an Ownhammer MMMC Marshall 4x12 so I got a bunch of Greenbacks. I like the Silver a lot thanks!

You're right it works great for raw raunchy sounds. I love the British midrange in Marshall Vox and Hiwatts from clean to gained up versions of that stuff.
The Silver also sounded great with some of the Vox models too which I've never been very happy with after owning a real one.

Before getting decent IR's I spent a lot of time exploring the advanced parameters which I like anyway but I was trying to dial in something without the foundational support of a proper IR.
I'm guessing the Mesa cab pack would work well with the Diezel and Bogner models too.

I'll get around to it soon enough...;)
 
So how many patches have you created that you use?
Eleven.

At a gig I limit myself to five patches: Clean, Edgy, Crunch, Rock, and acoustic. Within each of these I use IRs to turn on/off Chorus, Flange, Drive etc, and Scene 2 for a full on lead sound. Why five? Five is as many as I can think about at a gig. It’s also as many as I want to modify if I change something like an IR. Also, I have five in bank one of my MFC, with the other ten pedals dedicated to IRs.

The patches six to ten (MFC Bank 2) are the previous version of patches one to five. They are there in case something goes wrong at a gig, and I need to switch immediately to the old version. Of course I have backups going back years, but so far I’ve not needed to revert that far.

Eleven is specifically for making IRs which match electric guitars to my acoustic. I make about two electrics a year, and each one gets matched to the same acoustic.
 
Eleven.

At a gig I limit myself to five patches: Clean, Edgy, Crunch, Rock, and acoustic. Within each of these I use IRs to turn on/off Chorus, Flange, Drive etc, and Scene 2 for a full on lead sound. Why five? Five is as many as I can think about at a gig. It’s also as many as I want to modify if I change something like an IR. Also, I have five in bank one of my MFC, with the other ten pedals dedicated to IRs.

The patches six to ten (MFC Bank 2) are the previous version of patches one to five. They are there in case something goes wrong at a gig, and I need to switch immediately to the old version. Of course I have backups going back years, but so far I’ve not needed to revert that far.

Eleven is specifically for making IRs which match electric guitars to my acoustic. I make about two electrics a year, and each one gets matched to the same acoustic.
Five is a good number. Back in the day with a big rack five was the number for gigs.

Are you switching IR's live? What do you mean when you say you "use IRs to turn on/off Chorus, Flange, Drive etc" ?
 
I start with the end result in mind. First thing I do is consider the amp I want to try. Next, I pair it with a cabinet. I use Yek’s guide to get cab suggestions. It is indispensable. Once I have the amp and the cabinet paired, I get them dialed in, and then tackle the cab cuts. Next, I dial in the compression. Once I get all of that set, then I move on to the effects.
 
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