What is the height of your strings on the 12th fret?

It's surprising how many people like setting the action so low. Any fret buzz is unbearable to me, especially when recording. I use Jazz III picks and pick hard so anything under 2.5mm at the 12th fret low E isn't going to work using 10s in standard tuning. I just checked my dropped C guitar with 12s and it's at 3mm. I recently got a new Fender Strat and it was setup at the standard 4/64 (1.6 mm), and while it's fun and easy to play, the fret buzz is annoying. I can tolerate it at 2mm if I'm picking lightly or using a lighter pick but nothing sounds as good as a Jazz III picked with determined enthusiasm. :D
Hot damn that's high! Fret buzz on an electric is not the same as on an acoustic, so I deem it ok to buzz to some extent. As long as it doesn't fret out when bending.
 
It's surprising how many people like setting the action so low. Any fret buzz is unbearable to me, especially when recording. I use Jazz III picks and pick hard so anything under 2.5mm at the 12th fret low E isn't going to work using 10s in standard tuning. I just checked my dropped C guitar with 12s and it's at 3mm. I recently got a new Fender Strat and it was setup at the standard 4/64 (1.6 mm), and while it's fun and easy to play, the fret buzz is annoying. I can tolerate it at 2mm if I'm picking lightly or using a lighter pick but nothing sounds as good as a Jazz III picked with determined enthusiasm. :D
As I said, everyone has their preferences. I probably wouldn't be able to play with such a high string setting at all. My setup on all guitars is 1.0 - 1.1 mm, on the 12th fret, a light touch, a 0.73 mm pick, straight neck. Very sporadically, a buzz will sound on the gross E ... I can accept that
 
Ugh, that was frustrating. I figured I'd take the relief that I couldn't get as low as I thought I wanted as a given, and just lower the bridge saddles to get the action more reasonable.

Turns out that taking the saddles down much at all caused massive fretting out on the higher frets, strings hitting the last fret or ones a bit before there. If I'm visualizing the geometry right (probably not), that points to the neck being excessively concave, meaning the truss rod needs to be tightened. Which I tried to do but can't any further.

Logic and measurements aside, I'm pretty sure I've things worse, not better, and they were bad to start with. And having taken the truss adjuster completely off to lube it I can't just go back to how it was. Which wasn't good.

Clearly don't know what I'm doing. Which I knew, but I thought I'd learn something, and get further than this.

(I wrote this last night, apparently forgot to send it. I'll take another look later, but for now I need some more sleep if I can.)
So it's sorted.
I found a well-respected luthier not too from me that I'd never tried, gave him a call on the off chance he'd see me today, and it worked out.

He took a look and said the neck was really bowed a lot, which is what I thought.
However, when he went to adjust it, he said the truss rod was nearly all the way LOOSE!
The last thing I'd done was to take the adjuster nut off completely, lube it and tighten it back up.
When it was still bowed, I tightened it a couple times more, until I thought it felt like I shouldn't do that any more.
I'm quite sure I didn't loosen it from there, why would I?
I just gave up and went to bed.

My theory is that I must have felt an unexpected resistance that freaked me out enough to stop, long before it was actually in the right ballpark.
As I've been saying, I'm not that experienced with truss rod adjustments.

He measures almost everything, but relief he sets by eye, siting down the neck, and I haven't measured since so I don't know how it's set, but it's totally workable.
He also tapped in one fret that was slightly pulled out.
His standard action height is 1/16", as a midway starting point to adjust from.
It's workable, but I'm finding that after the action increased gradually for a while, I've gotten somewhat used to it, and there's a tad more spank than I may want.
Back in my tele days, working that snap was a big part of my playing, not so much lately, I may raise it up a bit.
I don't mind the effort for the height, it's more the delay pushing the string down I don't like.

Bottom lines:
  • Pilot error all the way :)
  • If you need a good luthier in the Boston area, try Steve Morrill Guitar Repair in Boxborough, recommended. (Not that anyone should expect it, but he wouldn't take any money for his work today, and I asked repeatedly. Said it was too easy.)
 
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So it's sorted.
I found a well-respected luthier not too from me that I'd never tried, gave him a call on the off chance he'd see me today, and it worked out.

He took a look and said the neck was really bowed a lot, which is what I thought.
However, when he went to adjust it, he said the truss rod was nearly all the way LOOSE!
The last thing I'd done was to take the adjuster nut off completely, lube it and tighten it back up.
When it was still bowed, I tightened it a couple times more, until I thought it felt like I shouldn't do that any more.
I'm quite sure I didn't loosen it from there, why would I?
I just gave up and went to bed.

My theory is that I must have felt an unexpected resistance that freaked me out enough to stop, long before it was actually in the right ballpark.
As I've been saying, I'm not that experienced with truss rod adjustments.

He measures almost everything, but relief he sets by eye, siting down the neck, and I haven't measured since so I don't know how it's set, but it's totally workable.
He also tapped in one fret that was slightly pulled out.
His standard action height is 1/16", as a midway starting point to adjust from.
It's workable, but I'm finding that after the action increased gradually for a while, I've gotten somewhat used to it, and there's a tad more spank than I may want.
Back in my tele days, working that snap was a big part of my playing, not so much lately, I may raise it up a bit.
I don't mind the effort for the height, it's more the delay pushing the string down I don't like.

Bottom lines:
  • Pilot error all the way :)
  • If you need a good luthier in the Boston area, try Steve Morrill Guitar Repair in Boxborough, recommended. (Not that anyone should expect it, but he wouldn't take any money for his work today, and I asked repeatedly.)
Glad it worked out! My initial reaction to your most recent post was that it could very well be what it turned out to be. Tightening a truss rod is a bit like stretching: You have to know what is a good stretch and a bad stretch, finding out what is normal discomfort and what is down right pain.

Similarly, being able to feel when you can keep turning and when the truss rod simply won't go any further, comes with experience.
 
It's surprising how many people like setting the action so low. Any fret buzz is unbearable to me, especially when recording. I use Jazz III picks and pick hard so anything under 2.5mm at the 12th fret low E isn't going to work using 10s in standard tuning. I just checked my dropped C guitar with 12s and it's at 3mm. I recently got a new Fender Strat and it was setup at the standard 4/64 (1.6 mm), and while it's fun and easy to play, the fret buzz is annoying. I can tolerate it at 2mm if I'm picking lightly or using a lighter pick but nothing sounds as good as a Jazz III picked with determined enthusiasm. :D
This is why I learned to do my own fret leveling; don't like any fret buzz either. Done correctly, it's easy to get an action of <2.0mm without any fret buzz. I don't have a light touch with my right hand and have an Ibanez JS2400 with the action at 1.5mm low E, 1.25 high E and no fret buzz anywhere on the neck. My Fenders and PRS I like the way they play with the action just under 2.0mm low E. The action on the rest of the strings loosely follows the radius of the fretboard until I get the feel I prefer when picking the strings and bending the E, B and G strings. High E usually ends up @ a bit over 1.5mm.
 
This is why I learned to do my own fret leveling; don't like any fret buzz either. Done correctly, it's easy to get an action of <2.0mm without any fret buzz. I don't have a light touch with my right hand and have an Ibanez JS2400 with the action at 1.5mm low E, 1.25 high E and no fret buzz anywhere on the neck. My Fenders and PRS I like the way they play with the action just under 2.0mm low E. The action on the rest of the strings loosely follows the radius of the fretboard until I get the feel I prefer when picking the strings and bending the E, B and G strings. High E usually ends up @ a bit over 1.5mm.
Yes, there is no reason that you can't get this action on a properly functioning guitar. In fact if it is perfect and you pick too hard you should only get a slap against the next fret followed by the note, NOT BUZZ. Fret buzz is caused by something not right in the geometry. The drawback here is wood is not a perfect even material and necks often flex in an unhelpful position. The truss rod does not change where the flex is , only how much. This is one reason I am a huge fan of carbon fibre stiffening rods and the 10/90 neck design.Not because they make the neck stiffer (although this is good) but because they make it predictable and improve the chance of the relief occurring where you actually want it.
 
Yes, there is no reason that you can't get this action on a properly functioning guitar. In fact if it is perfect and you pick too hard you should only get a slap against the next fret followed by the note, NOT BUZZ. Fret buzz is caused by something not right in the geometry. The drawback here is wood is not a perfect even material and necks often flex in an unhelpful position. The truss rod does not change where the flex is , only how much. This is one reason I am a huge fan of carbon fibre stiffening rods and the 10/90 neck design.Not because they make the neck stiffer (although this is good) but because they make it predictable and improve the chance of the relief occurring where you actually want it.
Andy, what makes/models of guitars use that tech? Are there any you recommend in particular? (Which I know is a dumb question because different players are looking for different things, but still.)
 
Quite a lot use stiffening rods without telling you, Charvel ,EVH, Kiesel, Vigier is the 10/90 and no truss rod. Taylor use stainless steel,Strandberg a thin laminate. Ibanez have uses titanium ( for some reason.) Even Fender reinforce there standard USA bass necks in the upper register.
Lots of small builders have used it too as it is a pretty easy thing to do if you have a separate fingerboard.
 
I have a fairly light touch so can get away with lower action on my guitars around 4~5/64" on the low E and 3/64"on the high E.
 
Quite a lot use stiffening rods without telling you, Charvel ,EVH, Kiesel, Vigier is the 10/90 and no truss rod. Taylor use stainless steel,Strandberg a thin laminate. Ibanez have uses titanium ( for some reason.) Even Fender reinforce there standard USA bass necks in the upper register.
Lots of small builders have used it too as it is a pretty easy thing to do if you have a separate fingerboard.
I have a Flaxwood Hybrid. It has a truss rod, but I don't recall adjusting it since first getting it years ago.
 
Some synthetic necks are stiffer then the string tension and they are equipped with a dual action truss rod that can force the neck either way.
These work particularly well because the string tension is almost out of the equation.
The necks that are the most sensitive are vintage single rod in a curved channel. This is because the wood is the brace against the metal acting almost as a by-metal thermostat due to the different rates of expansion in the materials. Now add longitudinal compression to find all the grain twists and convert them to neck twists over long term and you have a pretty terrible design.
 
Some synthetic necks are stiffer then the string tension and they are equipped with a dual action truss rod that can force the neck either way.
These work particularly well because the string tension is almost out of the equation.
The necks that are the most sensitive are vintage single rod in a curved channel. This is because the wood is the brace against the metal acting almost as a by-metal thermostat due to the different rates of expansion in the materials. Now add longitudinal compression to find all the grain twists and convert them to neck twists over long term and you have a pretty terrible design.
Andy, what are some examples of good design in this area? Are there any that are affordable?
 
New Charvel mod Pro and EVH (same blank) the ones with the truss rod wheel are double carbon rods which is going to work is most cases. Multi laminated necks in general are pretty stable. Anything with a dual acting rod and nice straight grain should also stay good assuming it was good to start with. The truss rods that give me the most trouble are vintage fitted through the top ( separate fingerboard,) particularly Mexican Fender. The tell tail sign is you need it way too tight just to get the neck straight with 10s. This is a manufacturing fault where the wooden strip that sits over the rod has not been pressed down quite far enough during the clamping and gluing. It is impossible to tell by just looking because the excess wood is removed on a table belt sander. The effect is you can get the rod almost straight before it takes the neck with it. Effectively a right off. BUT about 1 in 10 seem to be like this.
 
I used to set mine super low, but lately I’ve been going 1.9mm low E/1.5mm high e With .25mm of relief. Feels more natural this way.
 
For me it's depends on fret size. On big frets I go lower because I can still get under the string. On small vintage frets I go higher for the same reason.
 
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