What is the height of your strings on the 12th fret?

Dave Merrill said:
This is an EJ strat. There's no externally exposed nut. Do you mean removing the truss rod from the neck by unscrewing it all the way? In all my years of playing I've never done that.


Adjuster looks like this:
View attachment 77427
Pic is hard to see, best I found, but it's not an Allen, just a cross-shaped double slot that goes all the way across the rod in both directions.

But you've also answered my question about whether a screwdriver should be able to exert enough force, and the answer is yes, I shouldn't need a special tool. If that's the case, and it doesn't move any further, is the neck trashed?


Just curious, why remove the pickguard?
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Yes, just unscrew it all the way for inspection of threads and lubrication. Once that is done we can hopefully tighten the rod without causing irreversible damage. I can explain how to do this without stressing the threads or the nut.
 
skunc said:
Yes, just unscrew it all the way for inspection of threads and lubrication. Once that is done we can hopefully tighten the rod without causing irreversible damage. I can explain how to do this without stressing the threads or the nut.
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First off, thanks a ton to everyone who's offered help here. I've been playing for almost 60 years, but I've never done this level of adjustment before, just the simple works-as-intended version. I also grew up on Gibson-like guitars, with more sensibly exposed adjusters (and snappable headstocks...).

The external adjuster is just a metal (steel?) cylinder with the X-shaped slot on one end that I showed before, and internal threads on the other.
Inside, I don't see a nut, just what looks like a threaded rod with significant corrosion.
This was a hard pic to take, best I could do:
1610909104969.png

I can try lubing that.
The lube I got from my local hardware says it's got PTFE, but doesn't use the word dry, and neither did the other one they had.
I sprayed a little out, it's liquid more or less, not powder, which is what I'd intuitively think "dry" would mean.
Will that be ok?

@skunc, I'd love it if you could guide me through adjusting this without damaging anything.
 
Dave Merrill said:
First off, thanks a ton to everyone who's offered help here. I've been playing for almost 60 years, but I've never done this level of adjustment before, just the simple works-as-intended version. I also grew up on Gibson-like guitars, with more sensibly exposed adjusters (and snappable headstocks...).

The external adjuster is just a metal (steel?) cylinder with the X-shaped slot on one end that I showed before, and internal threads on the other.
Inside, I don't see a nut, just what looks like a threaded rod with significant corrosion.
This was a hard pic to take, best I could do:
View attachment 77430

I can try lubing that.
The lube I got from my local hardware says it's got PTFE, but doesn't use the word dry, and neither did the other one they had.
I sprayed a little out, it's liquid more or less, not powder, which is what I'd intuitively think "dry" would mean.
Will that be ok?

@skunc, I'd love it if you could guide me through adjusting this without damaging anything.
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Dry means it's not sticky and isn't prone to gunking up. It's not all oily and schmeary, if that makes sense?

On another note: Yep! That sure needs some TLC. I used the word nut, because some truss rods have a nut instead of a screw that you turn.
 
spray a razor blade and use the tip of the corner to transfer the liquid to the rod.
or spray the nut.
 
skunc said:
spray a razor blade and use the tip of the corner to transfer the liquid to the rod.
or spray the nut.
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Sprayed the nut, maybe got a little more out of it maybe. Relief is now about 1/16, more than I think I'd like.

I don't see anything further to do in that area, except go to lighter strings than the 10s that are on there now, which I don't want to do, or take it to a tech, which I also don't want to do at this point. Gonna try to live with it for now.

Next step is to try to get the action lower. Low E is 1/4" at the 12th , high E 3/16".
Yowza, way high. There's room in the saddles, maybe a bit tight on the high side, we'll see.

According to an article I read, which for some reason I can't create a link to on my phone, EJ's setup is 4/64 at the 12th, and a little less for the low E. I'm so not him but still. Fender says the same, but measure at the 17th for some reason.

Article: http://www.theguitarcolumn.com/2009/12/eric-johnsons-setup-secrets-part-ii.html


skunc said:
With no tension on the neck and the nut loose, is there relief in the neck?
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Sorry, already zipped it up, not going to dive in again to check. I'll try to remember next time I'm in.


Once again, thanks for all the tips, much appreciated.
 
Since it's a rosewood fretboard, it may be dry. If it is, it can shrink & put more tension on the neck. You can try oiling the fretboard & see if that helps. I had that issue with a really nice Tobias 6 str. bass that had a dry fretboard. Oiling it made a big difference.
 
notalemming said:
Since it's a rosewood fretboard, it may be dry. If it is, it can shrink & put more tension on the neck. You can try oiling the fretboard & see if that helps. I had that issue with a really nice Tobias 6 str. bass that had a dry fretboard. Oiling it made a big difference.
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Interesting, hadn't occurred to me that it'd have that effect. Everything here is dry in the winter, skin and nails cracking, yadda.

What treatment do folks recommend to counteract that?
 
Dave Merrill said:
Interesting, hadn't occurred to me that it'd have that effect. Everything here is dry in the winter, skin and nails cracking, yadda.

What treatment do folks recommend to counteract that?
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Any good fretboard oil. I used Dr. Duck's Axe Wax on the bass I mentioned. Music Nomad F-One oil is good too. What I did was rub a liberal amount on to the fretboard & let it sit for a while. Then check to see if there are areas that look like the oil has absorbed more than others & give those areas some more oil. Let it sit some more & then wipe off any excess with a clean cloth.
 
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Ugh, that was frustrating. I figured I'd take the relief that I couldn't get as low as I thought I wanted as a given, and just lower the bridge saddles to get the action more reasonable.

Turns out that taking the saddles down much at all caused massive fretting out on the higher frets, strings hitting the last fret or ones a bit before there. If I'm visualizing the geometry right (probably not), that points to the neck being excessively concave, meaning the truss rod needs to be tightened. Which I tried to do but can't any further.

Logic and measurements aside, I'm pretty sure I've things worse, not better, and they were bad to start with. And having taken the truss adjuster completely off to lube it I can't just go back to how it was. Which wasn't good.

Clearly don't know what I'm doing. Which I knew, but I thought I'd learn something, and get further than this.

(I wrote this last night, apparently forgot to send it. I'll take another look later, but for now I need some more sleep if I can.)
 
Dave Merrill said:
Ugh, that was frustrating. I figured I'd take the relief that I couldn't get as low as I thought I wanted as a given, and just lower the bridge saddles to get the action more reasonable.

Turns out that taking the saddles down much at all caused massive fretting out on the higher frets, strings hitting the last fret or ones a bit before there. If I'm visualizing the geometry right (probably not), that points to the neck being excessively concave, meaning the truss rod needs to be tightened. Which I tried to do but can't any further.

Logic and measurements aside, I'm pretty sure I've things worse, not better, and they were bad to start with. And having taken the truss adjuster completely off to lube it I can't just go back to how it was. Which wasn't good.

Clearly don't know what I'm doing. Which I knew, but I thought I'd learn something, and get further than this.

(I wrote this last night, apparently forgot to send it. I'll take another look later, but for now I need some more sleep if I can.)
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Make sure your pups are not set to high as to magnetically pull the strings downward and cause more string/fret crashing.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Ugh, that was frustrating. I figured I'd take the relief that I couldn't get as low as I thought I wanted as a given, and just lower the bridge saddles to get the action more reasonable.

Turns out that taking the saddles down much at all caused massive fretting out on the higher frets, strings hitting the last fret or ones a bit before there. If I'm visualizing the geometry right (probably not), that points to the neck being excessively concave, meaning the truss rod needs to be tightened. Which I tried to do but can't any further.

Logic and measurements aside, I'm pretty sure I've things worse, not better, and they were bad to start with. And having taken the truss adjuster completely off to lube it I can't just go back to how it was. Which wasn't good.

Clearly don't know what I'm doing. Which I knew, but I thought I'd learn something, and get further than this.

(I wrote this last night, apparently forgot to send it. I'll take another look later, but for now I need some more sleep if I can.)
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Sounds like time to take it to a luthier. I've been doing my own set ups for ages but now & then, there is something more going on that I can't deal with.
 
I measured one of my guitars and the height at the 12th fret was 3/64 inches on both the bass and treble E strings.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Ugh, that was frustrating. I figured I'd take the relief that I couldn't get as low as I thought I wanted as a given, and just lower the bridge saddles to get the action more reasonable.

Turns out that taking the saddles down much at all caused massive fretting out on the higher frets, strings hitting the last fret or ones a bit before there. If I'm visualizing the geometry right (probably not), that points to the neck being excessively concave, meaning the truss rod needs to be tightened. Which I tried to do but can't any further.

Logic and measurements aside, I'm pretty sure I've things worse, not better, and they were bad to start with. And having taken the truss adjuster completely off to lube it I can't just go back to how it was. Which wasn't good.

Clearly don't know what I'm doing. Which I knew, but I thought I'd learn something, and get further than this.

(I wrote this last night, apparently forgot to send it. I'll take another look later, but for now I need some more sleep if I can.)
Click to expand...

Can you send a photo ? Ideal side profile of the neck along with the guitar
 
It's surprising how many people like setting the action so low. Any fret buzz is unbearable to me, especially when recording. I use Jazz III picks and pick hard so anything under 2.5mm at the 12th fret low E isn't going to work using 10s in standard tuning. I just checked my dropped C guitar with 12s and it's at 3mm. I recently got a new Fender Strat and it was setup at the standard 4/64 (1.6 mm), and while it's fun and easy to play, the fret buzz is annoying. I can tolerate it at 2mm if I'm picking lightly or using a lighter pick but nothing sounds as good as a Jazz III picked with determined enthusiasm. :D
 
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