What happens when we hit FW11 ? (Axe FX III)

Cliff has said repeatedly that FW 11 is not the end of the AxeII and that it still has several years left in its cycle
 
There have been threads before on both portable Axe-FX and Axe-FX II life-cycle. I'm proud of a couple of posts I did but too lazy to look up the treads. I'll summarize:

Portable Axe-FX - Components - the power transformer alone in the Axe-FX costs half as much as parts for a POD (I exaggerate but you get the point). The Axe-FX requires tons of expensive DSP and it is a high quality topography throughout. A portable Axe-FX is a totally different product and would take a lot of development. A plug-in might even be more practical but Fractal is a hardware company so I'd be surprised to see that. We want Fractal solidly focused on a high quality road worthy recording studio worthy professional quality tone platform. There are tons of vendors & products targeted for hobbyists and the "prosumer" market. BTY, I'm not a pro, more of a hack really but I've worked long and hard to earn my gear. I'm just lucky such great tech is available.

Life-cycle - PCs and iPods have a shorter life-cycle than this kind of device. A better analog is video game consoles (very high tech/proprietary/expensive build) and they have ~ 6 year life-cycle.
 
Well, this only applies as long as the marked is not saturated. So as long fractal is still selling units, this works, but sooner or later, everyone who digs digital will own one, and then there has to be some other source of profit...

Let's be honest here; I started when FW7 was out and when I just bought it, I already felt like I got so much more than I paid for. Now, 3 firmwares later, things just got even worse.

Well... but maybe it's just because the music industry is ridicolously overprized and obsessed with trademark names, that good products being at a reasonabe price (like the axe) feel like a way too good of a deal to be true.

Keep in mind, that we are paying well over $2000 for this unit, not a few hundred like some other modellers that get one update every year..

That being said, if we never got anymore updates I would still consider this a GREAT purchase.
 
Keep in mind, that we are paying well over $2000 for this unit, not a few hundred like some other modellers that get one update every year..

That being said, if we never got anymore updates I would still consider this a GREAT purchase.
The thing is: professional software developement costs a SHITTON of money nowadays. Being and engineer, I work with several CAD and FEM systems at work. The average private user couldn't afford just one single professional licence of catia or Ansys for home use. That's why usually companies don't really care about private piracy of professional software (they do care for private consumer software like games).
Also, even semi-professional software (keep in mind: pressing a DVD costs a company less than a dollar) like Photoshop costs several hundred bucks.

Of course, $2000 doesn't seem fair if we only take the cost for parts and manufacturing into account. But this makes just a small fraction of the cost of digital equipment.

Other modellers are much cheaper for five main reasons:
1) there's usually a giant company involved, like BOSS or LINE-6, which allows allocating company internal resources at a much lower price than it would be with external resources (electricians, engineers - I can't imagine Fractal having their own engineer for designing all the mechatronical peripherals of the AXE - they have probably just contracted a freelance engineer or a company for that task) - this also greatly reduces the cost for actual manufacturing (even if it makes only a small fraction of the product cost), as those companies usually have their own manufacturing logistics.
2) giant companies now and then tend to put low priced products on the market with a much lower profit margin, to boost competition.
3) made in cambodia/korea/china/whatever (though china gets more and more expensive every year, due to politics and increasing taxes).
4) advertisement. Don't underestimate the cost of advertisement of any form. There's almost no need for BOSS or LINE-6 to do advertisement on their lower priced modellers - simply because everyone knows and uses them.
5) usage of standards and licenced algorithms. Lower priced modellers usually use existing software modules and algorithms, which saves a lot of money for the actual software developement. This, however, also reduces their flexibility and there's almost no innovation going on (remember Cliff writing that MIMIC algorythm and being able to actually put that in the Axe via a firmware update? Impossible with licenced module based software and without the required software peripherals)
 
I asked the same question, prior to buying.

My concern was not about getting updates, I just didn't want to waste money on an EOL product. Being new and seeing the website before checking the forums, it seems to be a common question.
 
A gear nerd techie guy bought my Ultra and the first thing he did was open it up. He never speaks about gear on Facebook but this time he made a post about not believing his eyes that people still build gear with this high quality.

But yeah... when Axe-II sales drop Fractal will most likely create a new product for the cash flow. I remember when the II came out and no one really understood why we'd need more power. Maybe it's something similar. Fractal monitors? A cheaper budget version of Axe? (not likely since low cash flow) Fractal wireless? Fractal in-ear? LOL: Fractal guitar with adjustable neck/pickups/wood... don't ask me how... Cliff will find a way. Anyways: Axe-3 would make no sense. 2 already sounds better than real amps so why? The new cab design Cliff was talking about? I dunno..
 
Anyways: Axe-3 would make no sense. 2 already sounds better than real amps so why? The new cab design Cliff was talking about? I dunno..

I agree to a point. The only issue I still frequently run into is CPU usage. As the modeling for the amp block has become more and more sophisticated, the more CPU it eats, and the fewer additional blocks one can run, especially when the II is used as DAW interface. Since most of my presets use 2 amp blocks, it doesn't take long for me to hit the ceiling. First world problems... how shall I go on? :concern: :lol
 
Right now the market for Axe II is people who don't already have one. Many existing II owners would happily throw more money at Fractal for a new toy, if one existed. But it doesn't. Meanwhile, guys that are on the fence about the II are starting to question whether a new model is around the corner so they're holding off.

Now suppose Fractal released the 'II S', or the 'II Ultra' or something. Lets say it runs the same firmware but has various improvements... maybe onboard Wi-Fi, sharp color screen, silent fan-less design. New ability to store TWO different versions of firmware on-board (switch between them on the fly). Stuff like that, but basically it works and sounds the same as the II.

All the guys who were on the fence about the II would jump on this immediately, and all the real die-hard Axe II guys would buy one too just to have the latest and greatest. Depending how much R&D and supply chain overhead costs, it might be worthwhile.

Look at Apple's steady stream of iPhones and iPads. Every time a bit better specs, faster, lighter, etc. The same people keep re-buying them, even though the old ones are still perfectly good. I'd like to think we're smarter than typical hipster nerds worshiping their iWhatevers... but I'd be tempted if 'Axe-Fx 2.5' or whatever came out today.
 
That's exactly the kind of capitalism that's wrong in this world. Sounds like Line6... not like Fractal Audio. iPhone 5 had no important update to the 4S which basically started negative talk about Apple. None of that BS happened when Steve Jobs was alive. I hope none of that BS will happen here either as long as Cliff Chase is alive.
 
Apple was probably a bad analogy :)

But basically the same unit with either or both of these features would be a big value add:

1. HDMI output - mirrors the front panel display.
2. 1 more rack space high with a row of digital encoders with soft position markers and soft labels - these would be active for edits even in recall mode.

Richard
 
OK, when I'm not melting fretboards in front of literally dozens of people I am a marketing strategist. There will not be an Axe FX lll for some time. There is a point in product's life cycle when it becomes 'good enough'. That is, any further major investment in its development brings only incremental improvements in profit because the product has already caused the disruption required, dominates its sector and competing products are unlikely to displace it the medium term. The Axe FX ll is an expensive professional tool that is clearly good enough.

Cliff could stop now and the AFX ll would be generating profits for years to come. The constant effort that Cliff puts into improving the firmware is simply because he loves this shit! Fractal are gaining a reputation as go-to guys for professional touring guitarists and I imagine effort is being invested in this service aspect of the business as well.

Hardware-wise modularity is the way forward. Fractal does not, quite rightly, want to compromise on modelling and sound quality so using cheaper components is out. However it's possible amp modelling and effects modelling could be split into separate products to address wider markets at lower price points. In turn this would require an increase in manufacturing capacity with a commensurate increase in efficiency. This increased manufacturing efficiency and lower priced product portfolio might allow enough margin for the creation of proper dealer network.

One could also see the creation of a number of peripheral control hardware and software products and maybe even speaker cabs.

When it comes, the AFX lll will need to be disruptive and revolutionary once again.
 
In all fairness I'd have been happy with a Standard.
The Axe II is more than I'd ever need as a player - for those who want the III, IV, V etc then have at it ;)
Personally this isn't all I ever wanted as a guitarist - it's a world beyond it.
Take care all, and happy jamming !
 
Apple was probably a bad analogy :)

But basically the same unit with either or both of these features would be a big value add:

1. HDMI output - mirrors the front panel display.
2. 1 more rack space high with a row of digital encoders with soft position markers and soft labels - these would be active for edits even in recall mode.

Richard

HDMI output? Really? Sigh..
 
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