What FRFR? I need portability - moving into a band situation

B

BobbyJones

Member
Hi everyone,

I need some advice. Since having the Axe III, I've only ever used it in one place with my Adam A7x monitors.

Now I'm going to be trying out for a band and need some portability and a way to take my Axe with me. Assume there is no PA for me to go into.

I've been looking around at different FRFR cabs. This being one of them - Mission Gemini 2

I don't mind investing in equipment but this is a tonne of money, so I'm just looking for any input on ways I can go about this.

I know it's a rabbit hole and there is no 'best' solution. I'm just looking for a way to take my Axe with me and play in a band situation without sacrificing sound quality, having a good enough volume and generally not breaking the bank too much :/

Any suggestions on recommended gear or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!
 
BobbyJones said:
Hi everyone,

I need some advice. Since having the Axe III, I've only ever used it in one place with my Adam A7x monitors.

Now I'm going to be trying out for a band and need some portability and a way to take my Axe with me. Assume there is no PA for me to go into.

I've been looking around at different FRFR cabs. This being one of them - Mission Gemini 2

I don't mind investing in equipment but this is a tonne of money, so I'm just looking for any input on ways I can go about this.

I know it's a rabbit hole and there is no 'best' solution. I'm just looking for a way to take my Axe with me and play in a band situation without sacrificing sound quality, having a good enough volume and generally not breaking the bank too much :/

Any suggestions on recommended gear or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I've heard good things about the Headrush FRFR-108 and 112. I don't own one myself but I'm considering getting one. the 108 is quite compact and pack's a punch so I'm told. It's not that expensive either.
 
Reading your post you need an amplification solution that not only serves as your personal monitor but needs to fill the room too (far-field).

For that task, I'd go for the traditional guitar cab enclosure, with an external or built-in power amp. You then have the choice to:

A) put in a traditional guitar speaker (not FRFR), or
B) put in an FR speaker

A is simple, proven and saves you the hassle of selecting IRs. It's what I've brought to many, many bar gigs. But it limits your choice of sounds. I have never found that to be a problem.

B offers flexibility, because you can use IRs. It won't be the same as the familiar amp-in-the-room sound though, because of the close-miked character of most IRs and other aspects. However, the new Celestion FX12-200 speaker is said to provide the best of both worlds: full-range and the punch of a guitar speaker.

Regarding the power amp: can't say enough good things about the SD PS-170.
 
I think Yek nailed it.

I too -love- IRs for studio work and practice at home with near-fields, but I find FRFR frustrating for live use; I'm playing bars, clubs and small outdoor gigs - not stadiums. : )

I use guitar cabinets of differing sizes for live shows. It's easy to globally disable cabinet modeling in the Axe with a single change.
The only thing I have to be careful of is keeping my stereo vs mono patches clearly labelled.

Good luck and congrats on getting out there!
 
I only play live with the AXE X III. And although this is not the norm, being old school, I've used a stereo power amp and traditional guitar cab, from day 1.
I achieve great tone and leave amp and cab modeling on, and adjust EQ accordingly. This way I don't have to limit my choices of sounds.
To me it's the closest thing to a real tube guitar amp. Am I coloring my tone a little. Probably, but that's what EQ is for.
 
I’m gonna suggest not going with a traditional cab! They have very poor dispersion and will sound different for different parts of the audience. A lot of guitar players really like the way a traditional cab sounds but it won’t sound like that for most of the audience.
Pretty much any high end 1x12 powered PA speaker will work great! If you need more volume two 1x12 PA speakers may be required. If you want something really awesome try a 3 way powered PA speaker! That’s not super portable though!
 
BobbyJones said:
Hi everyone,

I need some advice. Since having the Axe III, I've only ever used it in one place with my Adam A7x monitors.

Now I'm going to be trying out for a band and need some portability and a way to take my Axe with me. Assume there is no PA for me to go into.

I've been looking around at different FRFR cabs. This being one of them - Mission Gemini 2

I don't mind investing in equipment but this is a tonne of money, so I'm just looking for any input on ways I can go about this.

I know it's a rabbit hole and there is no 'best' solution. I'm just looking for a way to take my Axe with me and play in a band situation without sacrificing sound quality, having a good enough volume and generally not breaking the bank too much :/

Any suggestions on recommended gear or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
It’s not a question of cab or FRFR, the answer is you want a good FRFR.......

I have the same problem as you and I have asked the same question: WHICH FRFR?

So when I was younger and more impulsive, and Atomic CLR was the shit, I bought the neo wedge because it was considered the best, and i got a deal for $1200 when they weren’t even available on a Year waiting list so i took it

Since then, people have said there are better FRFR for under $1000, but Ive yet to see on beat the atomic wedge clr neo.

CAN anyone help with that in this regard? Meaning I was using a kemper which had massive tones with the CLR live and it was great, but is there something even better FRFR single speaker to pair with the AXE FX 3?

Thanks for asking the question. OP
 
To me playing live is NOT about having 12 sounds all perfectly “authentic” for the song.
Its about one great sound. In the studio have at it with variety, but live, keep it simple silly.

You aren’t usually playing at a guitar fest, you are playing songs and the KISS rule is best for live sound which -always- presents “fun” and often surprise challenges.

Yes. You can get KISS from an FRFR or a cabinet but I do think changing IRs is a lot more tempting with FRFR... and that opens the door to all kinds of bad trade-offs, like level and EQ changes the sound guy, or your own band, might react to in a way you don’t like. “Everyone turn up!” Or “Hey what did that guy do? I’m burying him at the board for spiking the levels with that peaky clean sound“

As a rule with the Fractal I don’t change amps live, I change effects and amp settings but not the base amp or cab.
Limiting myself forces me to focus on playing and reduces the likelihood that I’ll add a problem to the mix.

Do most people care that my clean sound is a Marshall JCM with the gain down versus a more “authentic” amp and purpose built IR? Heck No.
They care about if the harmony is mostly in key and if we look like we are having fun and running around some on stage when we take big solos.
 
OP - I don’t think there is much better than the CLR, at least for mere mortal money. I read about these $4-8K unicorn systems online but I’ve never seen one.

In the realm of things in its price range, I think there isn’t “better” than a CLR. I own one and it pants‘ everything else I’ve tried for being accurate. Some don’t like the form factor, and I get it. That’s not “accurate” or “loud enough” problems though, that is fashion but I don’t knock people for caring about looks, it is a show too.

A lot of people are happy with less expensive setups Too. Trust your ears.
 
lwknives said:
I’m gonna suggest not going with a traditional cab! They have very poor dispersion and will sound different for different parts of the audience. A lot of guitar players really like the way a traditional cab sounds but it won’t sound like that for most of the audience.
Pretty much any high end 1x12 powered PA speaker will work great! If you need more volume two 1x12 PA speakers may be required. If you want something really awesome try a 3 way powered PA speaker! That’s not super portable though!
Click to expand...

People have been listening to guitar amps in bars for 70 years, and most of the times they sound just fine.
 
To fill the room and get some pressure the F12-X200 Celestion is the right choice.
Celestion explain on their site how their speaker is different from the typical PA speaker and why it is close to a typical guitar speaker. I have one and I think, yes, they nailed it.

BTW With a good guitar and good presets and good playing it will sound good on many different systems. As a monitor a good cheapo should do the trick as well. Headrush 12"?. RCF Art series? Why not!
In case it only sounds aceptable with some special monitor, it's not good enough. Go on tweaking then.
For sure a better monitor will make good sounds sound even better, but it can't iron out gaps in the presets.
 
White Light of Death said:
It’s not a question of cab or FRFR, the answer is you want a good FRFR.......

I have the same problem as you and I have asked the same question: WHICH FRFR?

So when I was younger and more impulsive, and Atomic CLR was the shit, I bought the neo wedge because it was considered the best, and i got a deal for $1200 when they weren’t even available on a Year waiting list so i took it

Since then, people have said there are better FRFR for under $1000, but Ive yet to see on beat the atomic wedge clr neo.

CAN anyone help with that in this regard? Meaning I was using a kemper which had massive tones with the CLR live and it was great, but is there something even better FRFR single speaker to pair with the AXE FX 3?

Thanks for asking the question. OP
Click to expand...

I didn't like the CLR too, got it and sold it on. There's nothing wrong with that.
Some say amp/cab/guitar a/b/c is the shit and you buy it and it is just that...bad sh*t. And you sell it on...a guitar players life.
 
yek said:
People have been listening to guitar amps in bars for 70 years, and most of the times they sound just fine.
Click to expand...
Right on.
I didn’t say that it wouldn’t work “just fine” I said it will sound different in different parts of the room. Guitar cabs have horrible dispersion, if you don’t have it aimed at your head then you are going to dial in a lot of treble which will hit your audience right in the ears giving them a nice ice pick to the head tone.
Cabs on stage works, but it is much less forgiving than FRFR especially if you don’t have a pa to help.
 
I use QSC k 10's work very well both live and at home . I talked with the company and they said they are working on a affordable amp modeling frfr system as we speak.
 
I have the Headrush 108 and a Laney IRT-X and I also have some Turbosound IQ10's and 12's (great PA speakers).

The little Headrush sounds the best and goes as loud as the Turbosound's, it sounds more like amp-in-the-room than the PA speakers do.

I run in stereo with the Laney and sometimes I but a Archon 25 in the middle on an FX loop...all three light weight units add up to massive sound but just the stereo pair of FRFR's does the trick for me and they sound similar to each other up until you really start pushing the volume up to large hall level and then the Laney is a bit weaker.

The Celestion solution sounds interesting though....
 
lwknives said:
Right on.
I didn’t say that it wouldn’t work “just fine” I said it will sound different in different parts of the room. Guitar cabs have horrible dispersion, if you don’t have it aimed at your head then you are going to dial in a lot of treble which will hit your audience right in the ears giving them a nice ice pick to the head tone.
Cabs on stage works, but it is much less forgiving than FRFR especially if you don’t have a pa to help.
Click to expand...
With regard to a live performance, there isn't a cab manufactured that is going to sound the same in different parts of the room. The sweet spot of a PA system can be from 15 to 50 feet from the center stage, depending on how wide and high the cabs are. If your ear is closer to the HF driver on a PA cab, you're going to hear a lot more highs, closer to the subs, more lows. Open back cabs disperse differently than a closed back cab. And standing directly in front of an FRFR sounds different than standing 10 feet away.
I think the proper cab choice would be what makes one think they're a better sounding player, because we all hear our sound differently than someone else. And guitar, preset, cab, volume, size of room, where we stand, our ears, etc all contribute to the final tone we are hearing.
Experimentation is the key, not necessarily the cost. These days I use a cab on stage because of the feel. I use in ears exclusively so I really don't know what my cab sounds like anymore. And in the future, we probably won't use cabs on stage, especially if sound engineers have their way.
 
Tommy Tempest said:
With regard to a live performance, there isn't a cab manufactured that is going to sound the same in different parts of the room. The sweet spot of a PA system can be from 15 to 50 feet from the center stage, depending on how wide and high the cabs are. If your ear is closer to the HF driver on a PA cab, you're going to hear a lot more highs, closer to the subs, more lows. Open back cabs disperse differently than a closed back cab. And standing directly in front of an FRFR sounds different than standing 10 feet away.
I think the proper cab choice would be what makes one think they're a better sounding player, because we all hear our sound differently than someone else. And guitar, preset, cab, volume, size of room, where we stand, our ears, etc all contribute to the final tone we are hearing.
Experimentation is the key, not necessarily the cost. These days I use a cab on stage because of the feel. I use in ears exclusively so I really don't know what my cab sounds like anymore. And in the future, we probably won't use cabs on stage, especially if sound engineers have their way.
Click to expand...
All true, but a good FRFR is much better than a guitar cab! Try walking around the audience area while someone plays your guitar. I used to play tube amps, I thought I had great tone until I heard what the audience heard, that’s what got me looking into Fractal 5 years ago.
 
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