What do I look for in a power conditioner?

Will I need a power conditioner?

  • Yes, for sure.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, a waste of money

    Votes: 11 100.0%
  • Total voters
    11
T

takamine

Member
Hey guys,

I've been tossing up the idea of getting a power conditioner for my Ultra. I've heard the ones under $300 are pretty much glorified power boards/strips.

So my question is what do I really need to look for?

A bit of background. My old setup was Guitar->Tonelab LE->Fender Princeton Chorus
I used to play in a local uni campus (we'll call it Venue 1) a couple of times a month. I've noticed that everytime I've played there, there's been high squeals/feedback/background noise when I use the high gain patches. I know this might be expected BUT the thing is, if I run the same setup, same volume at home, there's no annoying squeals/feedback etc. Every few months, I play at a different uni campus (Venue 2), run the same setup and everything, and there's no squeals/feedback either. So I've reasoned that the problematic symptoms are due to the electricals of the venue. I'm thinking "dirty power". I'm not sure exactly why it does that or what the exact problem is though. Sorry I have very limited insight on electronics so please excuse my terminology.

Right now, I'm just worried about using my Ultra in Venue 1 due to the "dirty power". I think I'll have more peace of mind if I run my Ultra through a power conditioner of some sort. It would be a really sad day if the Ultra died due to the dirty power. I'll summarise some of my thoughts into points:

1. Is my Ultra potentially at risk at Venue 1? Will a power conditioner really provide benefits/safety for the Ultra?
2. What are the advantages of the more pricey power conditioners? I noticed that for Furman's pricier range, they have SMP, LiFT, EVS etc... Will I need those extra features?
3. How often will I need to replace it? I read somewhere on this forum that you're supposed to change it after a few years or something
4. I'm liking the sound of the Monster 2500 recommended by the wiki, but it's not available for Australian power making it useless to me. The Furman AR-15 II is about 4 times the price of the Monster. So looks like the Furman PL series (from the wiki) may be the only affordable option. What do you guys use and what do you think of it?

Appreciate all the help I can get. I'll be playing at Venue 1 again next Friday so I'm deciding whether I use bring my Ultra. Otherwise it's back to the old Tonelab.

Thanks!
 
Hiya Takamine :)

I still own a Furman PF Pro Plus R - Series II. While it did protect my gear and improve my sound slightly, it added to the weight of my rack significantly (in terms of having to increase the size of the rack to fit it in, plus its own weight), making it unweildy. Plus it was annoying when it did clamp down before a show - the show must go on. I had to risk my amp with a crappy venue supplied powerboard (probably the source of the problem!!). That and no effects. Hence my move to the Axe-FX.

What I use now is this - http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/M7357

Its velcroed into the back of my 3-space rack and works a charm and does the same job at significantly less cost and less weight.

Check em out.

TimmyM
 
this is what i use & it is a freaking bargin. i paid $65 new
it does exactly what the expensive furman & monster units do.

http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/te ... sku=LE1200
& for our international friends http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=67

here is the aussie sellers link.
http://www.myshopping.com.au/PR--156588 ... _Regulator

it IS a genuine voltage regulator. it ALSO is a power conditioner.
"APC’s Line-R Automatic Voltage Regulator corrects brownouts (by boosting low voltage) and overvoltages (by
stepping down high voltage) from the power utility service to levels that are safe for computers,
as well as other sensitive equipment. APC’s Line-R provides the highest degree of protection
from line voltage sags and swells, and has been designed"

this is what you seek my friend
 
Thanks for the replies so far. Seems like both your replies are slightly different.

TimmyM's provides RMI/EMI filtration and surge protection.
Larbear63 provides automatic step up/down voltages, surge protection and resettable circuit breaker.

To me, filtration sounds more beneficial. I'm still fairly clueless with it all. Maybe I should just get both? Would that be overkill?
 
I would like to ask what power conditioning/distributing solution is dead-quiet. Is there any or do they all produce some noise? I'm looking for something suitable for recording room, thank you!
 
Possibly one thing to consider with the Furman AR-15 Series II is that it is a Power Conditioner utilizing the latest Furman technologies but it is also a Voltage Regulator. I am in the market for an AR-15 II to replace the two different Furman units that are in my rack now... one providing filtering and the other voltage regulation.

I don't know about the other units you've looked at but you might consider that in your comparisons.

I have only used Furmans (3 different units) and have never had a problem with them.
 
I know ... I must be an idiot for paying$200 for a Monster Pro 2500. In defense, I can say they work. I use one with my mixing rack and board. WE play a lot of outside jobs with some "strange" power. I have a lot of money invested in amps and PA systems. The thing I like about the Monster Pro is that if the power does not conform to certain limits, it shuts of. You have to be especially careful using generators. ONLY USE REGULATED GENERATORS. While I agree with Timmy that the show must go on, it doesn't have to go on at the expense of my equipment.

We ask about power when the band is booked. In our contract it stipulates in red our needs about clean power. It is the venues responsibility to provide clean power.

If after all that, the Monster Pro shuts down, I will not bypass it. It is exactly why I bought it. We will work with the venue any way we can to put the show on, including setting up our own power distributing system. BUT... I still won't by pass the Monster Pro. We were able to work it out so we could still play, Tell your venue what your equipment cost and if THEY will be responsible for replacing it.

This has happened on several occassions in the last few years. I believe in the system so much that when I bought my Axe-FX, I bought one for it too.

I also like that the Monster Pro turns the power on and off in sequence.

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=2141

Jim :)
 
takamine said:
Thanks for the replies so far. Seems like both your replies are slightly different.

TimmyM's provides RMI/EMI filtration and surge protection.
Larbear63 provides automatic step up/down voltages, surge protection and resettable circuit breaker.

To me, filtration sounds more beneficial. I'm still fairly clueless with it all. Maybe I should just get both? Would that be overkill?
Click to expand...

tak,, you are missing my point. the APC has RFI/EMI filtering & surge protection too.
Surge Protection and FilteringSurge energy rating 680 Joules EMI/RFI Noise rejection (100 kHz to 10 mHz) 55 dB Peak Current Common Mode 36 kAmps Let Through Voltage Rating < 450
 
Whoops, I missed that part. I just had a look at those Jackson powerboards as well and below are the specs. I really got no idea what half of these mean though, but seems both are quite similar functionally. The Jackson powerboard looks more appealing, as it's just a powerboard, whereas the other one is a fairly chunky thing weighing in at 4.4kg. Probably weigh down my rack actually. Thanks for the replies and links so far. It's been helpful.

Jacson 6 way metal surge EMI/RFI 525J
# Voltage rating: 230~240Vac 50Hz.
# Current: 10A (Max).
# Power rating: 2400 Watt.
# 6 x 240 AC sockets.
# Protection Mode: Active – Neutral – Earth.
# Surge Current: 18,000A.
# Surge Protection: MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor).
# Typical Capacitance: 430pF.
# Clamping Voltage: < 775V (at 50A).
# Energy Absorption: 525 Joules.
# Response Time: < 20 nano seconds.
# Filtration protection: EMI and RFI.
# New “insulated pin” style SAA power plug.
# 1.2m length power cord.
# Supplied in heat sealed clamshell blister


So my comparisons so far:
- Jackson 6-way Metal power board (~$46)
- Line-R 1200VA Voltage Regulator (~$88)
- Monster 2500 Power conditioner (~$200)
- Furman AR-15 II (>$700)

The price range is fairly steep between the Furman and the Jackson, might probably just stick with the Jackson for now since it's fairly easily accessible and the cheapest. Anyone else use anything different?
 
I use a Tripp-Lite LCR-2400. It's a voltage regulator/conditioner designed for computers/data centers...fairly expensive new but can be had reasonably on eBay. It's a 3U rack piece, I have it in a dedicated 4U rack, by itself. Being as it's 2400W, I can pretty much power the whole stage with it.
 
takamine said:
Whoops, I missed that part. I just had a look at those Jackson powerboards as well and below are the specs. I really got no idea what half of these mean though, but seems both are quite similar functionally. The Jackson powerboard looks more appealing, as it's just a powerboard, whereas the other one is a fairly chunky thing weighing in at 4.4kg. Probably weigh down my rack actually. Thanks for the replies and links so far. It's been helpful.

Jacson 6 way metal surge EMI/RFI 525J
# Voltage rating: 230~240Vac 50Hz.
# Current: 10A (Max).
# Power rating: 2400 Watt.
# 6 x 240 AC sockets.
# Protection Mode: Active – Neutral – Earth.
# Surge Current: 18,000A.
# Surge Protection: MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor).
# Typical Capacitance: 430pF.
# Clamping Voltage: < 775V (at 50A).
# Energy Absorption: 525 Joules.
# Response Time: < 20 nano seconds.
# Filtration protection: EMI and RFI.
# New “insulated pin” style SAA power plug.
# 1.2m length power cord.
# Supplied in heat sealed clamshell blister


So my comparisons so far:
- Jackson 6-way Metal power board (~$46)
- Line-R 1200VA Voltage Regulator (~$88)
- Monster 2500 Power conditioner (~$200)
- Furman AR-15 II (>$700)

The price range is fairly steep between the Furman and the Jackson, might probably just stick with the Jackson for now since it's fairly easily accessible and the cheapest. Anyone else use anything different?
Click to expand...

OK I'll translate:


# Voltage rating: 230~240Vac 50Hz.
it means you are in Europe
# Current: 10A (Max).
Standard $9 power strip feature
# Power rating: 2400 Watt.
it's the same as the 10A spec just expressed in watts
# 6 x 240 AC sockets.
ok it has 6 sockets
# Protection Mode: Active – Neutral – Earth.
active means surge, neutral-earth means a little light goes on if the earth or neutral wire is disconnected (nothing important)
# Surge Current: 18,000A.
meaningless number unless they tell you the duration of the surge
# Surge Protection: MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor).
This is the hart of your protection,
The MOV is a $0.50 item,
http://www.westfloridacomponents.com/VR ... +100J.html
you will find it in most power strips
and electronic equipment.... the AXE-FX most likely has one already, doubling it up will not help much.
# Typical Capacitance: 430pF.
ok it's a beefier MOV $0.75
# Clamping Voltage: < 775V (at 50A).
standard MOV spec
# Energy Absorption: 525 Joules.
standard MOV spec, pretty poor, if you want high joules and high current for little money look at this:
http://www.hififorless.com/showProduct. ... ctid=57083
# Response Time: < 20 nano seconds.
standard MOV spec
# Filtration protection: EMI and RFI.
ok so they added two coils to the circuit ($0.50) that helps reduce interference,
again pretty standard feature, most likely the AXE-FX has them already
# New “insulated pin” style SAA power plug.
description of the plug at the end of the power cord
# 1.2m length power cord.
short isn't it?
# Supplied in heat sealed clamshell blister
describes the packaging you rip up when you open the unit for the first time.

:oops:

So this thing doesn't do much, of course it will not hurt either just don't expect it to save anything if lightning hits the building.
If you are serious about protection get one with regulated output power... be ready to spend at least $1000.
The AXE-FX has oscillating power supply, it can take any minor surges probably better then any of these budget "power strips".
 
CrazyHeart said:
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=2141

Jim :)
Click to expand...

+1, I use and appreciate the Monster 2500 here.

I ran my band in and out of bars, pubs, halls, broken down old hotels for many years using a 'glorified outlet strip' for the PA rack. I was lucky, I never fried any gear with bad AC. I was, however, constantly dealing with 60 cycle hum and other noise issues. More recently I started replacing everything with newer, smaller stuff / powered speakers. Went back into some of the same venues that gave us AC noise issues b4, seemed it got WORSE, plus I had entirely new types of noise on certain channel strips. I still blame a lot of this on my new cheapie Behringer board (what a POS!), but since I plugged everything into the Monster 2500 my whole system has been DEAD quiet in every venue, no hum or noise at all.

So to me it's well worth the price just for the filtration. The protection is cheap insurance.

FWIW I keep the 2500 in the PA rack and my Axe in a separate smaller rack bag. I plug the Axe into the 2500 at our regular gigs, but if I take the Axe somewhere else or play through a house PA I'll just plug into whatever AC is available and hope for the best.
 
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