What controller would you choose if you were me?

[solo-act]

Gordius Little Giant for zero limitations, MFC for ease of use, but with scene limitations, and requirement to step up/down through pre-determined presets/banks.

One reason I use the little giant is it has a 10-key function. Set it up correctly, enter any patch/preset/bank number and you instantly go there. This means instant random access to everything, which is what I needed and only the Gordius had it. That's no true actually -- I asked for it and he uploaded a new firmware in 24 hours, but this was before I even bought a unit. Tells you something about the guy programming it.

 

[Danny Danzi]

Danny - the MFC has the best 'fit' with the Axe due to the MIDI sysex
but you will need additional expression pedals [XP]..
I use the Bass FV-500L

I also use additional external switches [XS] - the Boss FS-6
the reason I use this is because I like the switches to be low to the ground [I like my heel on the ground when stomping on switches whilst I'm playing], be a big target to stomp on, and also to have a very short 'throw' when switching..

I came from a Digitech 2120 so I am familiar with the seamless preset switching..
the Axe won't quite do this... but there is a very very cool way around it...
make all your tones within a single preset..

I use the MFC to change presets [between songs] and my XS / XP's to change the tone type / control the tone in real-time
alternatively, you can use the MFC for everything...
after changing preset, hit the reveal switch, and all the switches on the MFC become IA switches... this is a very powerful feature

example..
I have a riffing and soloing tone within a single preset
this preset serve 80% of the songs I play..
when I switch from riff to solo, I do it via modifiers
riff tone:
amp1 - left 5153Red
amp2 - right VH4ch4

I hit the switch on the FS-6 that I use to switch between riff mode and solo mode and the following happens:
amp1 pans centre
amp2 mutes
a vol block provides a big level boost [for more gain]
a delay un-bypasses
a pitch-shifter [used for very very gentle stereo chorusing] un-bypasses
the reverb in-put gain increases [to strengthen the reverb]

this system is immediate and the tone transitions are flawless...

so what about my of 20% of songs that this preset cannot address??
I make a copy of this basic preset and make changes to it..
so I have a few presets for certain 'song types' and a couple of presets for a specific song...

the very cool part is keeping them all consistent...
use global blocks for specific fx-blocks [especially the amps]..
so when you tweak one, you're tweaking them all simultaneously..

Great stuff Clarky, thanks so much! Really great read there as what you're doing is sort of what I do. I pretty much create the same sound one time and then copy it over my bank of 10 and have each patch the same sound only with different effects per patch. I guess I could do all that with scenes. I've not messed with them yet as I want to decide on a pedalboard first. I'm trying to think how this would work with scenes....I need to read the scenes manual....haven't gotten that far. I will try and read that before I ask any dumb questions. My whole thing is, I don't want to do any tap dancing.

For example, here's how my patches are set up for the majority of my cover band songs....

Patch 1: straight raw tone with a small verb for sound one. Expression pedal would control amount of distortion....full press would cut the gain down nearly in half.

Patch 2: the same sound with the same verb but with a HAAS delay. Same as the above with the expression pedal.

Patch 3: same sound as sound 1 but less highs, slight mid boost, more verb level with a slight tail, 2-3dB boost as this is a solo sound. Expression pedal the same as above.

Patch 4: Clean sound with a little chorus a little verb with the option to use a delay on/off which I could the expression pedal to trigger as on/off.

Patch 5: Same sound as patch 3 only with a ping-pong delay, a little less verb. Expression pedal the same as 3.

Patch 6: Same as patch one all the way around only a stereo chorus is used.

Patch 7: 12 String sim, clean sound the same as 4 with a 12 string effect, options for chorus, delay and verb.

Patch 8: Weird one....Steve Stevens ray gun sound. I have yet to try to get this with the Axe but have it nailed with my 2101 to the point of scary.

Patch 9: Something along the lines of the "Organic" preset patch. I have a killer string type sound out of my 2101. I'm sure the Axe will obliterate that once I try to create the sound I need.

Patch 10: Same as patch 5 with the chorus of patch 6 being in it.

The way I have that set up is how I'd like to try and set up my Axe. With the current rig I have now with controller, I can switch into all those patches without a glitch in my sounds. Seemless program changes. I know scenes will help me do this, but how much of what I have can be achieved with scenes? I need to be able to get back to a scene without getting back to a patch that forces me to tap dance to turn effects on or off, know what I mean?

And, will the MFC accomplish this better than some of the others listed? Liquid and Gordius seem pretty killer. Still fighting with what to do on that...but I'm hoping what I'm trying to do here with my patches won't be too hard to accomplish with the right mentality and of course the right board. That's just an examples of 10 of my patches. Some of my others are much more involved. I also have a slew of VH patches that I'll need to take. Ugggh...this is all the stuff I'm not looking forward to. I got my 2101 dialed in soo well for this stuff. I like the Axe better...but man, I have some really sick sounds I've come up with that are making me sick to even think of starting over with. LOL! When I was in my 20's, I didn't mind tone chasing and spending loads of time. Now that I'm older and have less time, the last thing I really want to do is try to recreate all this stuff with new gear. LOL! I'm cringing at the thought but also sort of welcoming the challenge of it. If only I was a kid again and had more time....grrrr. Thanks for your help. (and everyone elses too!!)

 

[clarky]

haaa... from a control perspective we are certainly cut from similar cloth...
I can only guess this is years of being a Digitech user...

yes the Axe can do everything the 2101 / 2120 can do.. but you need to go about them a little differently..

scenes are highly flexible but they do have certain limitations.. I overcome this by using scenes in conjunction with modifiers [in my new experimental presets]..
for this you will need a MIDI controller that can transmit two different CC values simultaneously.
the MFC can do this.. and I know that a few others can too..

top tip: rather than make an all singing and dancing preset, try to build what is needed within your multi-tone / multi-function preset and stick with the idea of creating variants. Trying too hard to put in too much can make the control aspect overly difficult and you can end up suffering from the 'on stage performance' angle [essentially trying to shoe-horn too many possibilities into a single config]..
the thing with variant presets is that you can have an underlying 'core config' which provides your fundamental tones
this config is tonally and behaviourally consistent across all of your presets.. and each variant will therefore contain the misc additional tonal / behavioural difference..

 

[hoth]

So I have changed my tune somewhat now that I have an MFC. At each point I have resisted drinking the Kool-Aid, and I think that I still maintain a fair amount of objectivity. However, I think that Fractal is kind of like Apple - there is power in the ecosystem approach. My setup is now MFC101 > AxeFX > Atomic CLR. And it sounds and works really amazingly well. The MFC101 integrates so easily and so well with the AxeFx, that it's hard for me to recommend any other controller now. There are three things though that I think the LG2 has going for it over the MFC: smaller size, computer-based editor, easier integration with other devices. If any of those three things is important to you, then I would still say consider the LG2.

 

[Danny Danzi]

Clarky, thanks for that. I really do appreciate it.

hoth: thank you also. I think I'm going to put in an order for the MFC. I really like the looks of that Liquid board though. The LCD screens are so me. LOL! I'm a sucker for stuff like that.

Thanks to everyone that had a hand in directing me....this forum is quite amazing. Thank you all for your kindness and information.

 

[Rexgtr]

Clarky, How do you use your Boss FS-6 footswitches for MFC-101 ext switch 1&2, 3&4?

i.e., do you use one RTS cable for each FS-6?
I have two of these pedals kicking around I just haven't figured out how to set them up with the MFC.
Q - Does it matter how you set the FS-6 slider switches (Polarity) (Mode Momentary or Latch)?
If for example I want one of these switches to control Ringmod for an octave divider I need to assign the switch using the MFC edit functions or from the AF2?

Thanks

 

[toasterdude]

Same with Ron at RJM. Always willing to help! His forum is also very good and he monitors it frequently to do upgrades. BTW, not bad-mouthing the the MFC. I used it and dug it. Very compatible. MMGT took me an afternoon to set-up. I actually have it programmed by banks for 3 different set-ups. AXE FX 2 into FOH stand-alone with amp/cab sims, Run into my Bogner Goldfinger 45 FX loop as effects only along with my pedal board effects, and finally using the MMGT with the AXE FX2 for all effects along with the RJM AMP GIZMO to change amp channels along with AXE FX presets (no amp/cab sims) Pretty sweet!

I agree on RJM. It is expensive but worth every penny so far. They have a smaller less expensive version coming out soon.

 

[clarky]

Clarky, How do you use your Boss FS-6 footswitches for MFC-101 ext switch 1&2, 3&4?

i.e., do you use one RTS cable for each FS-6?
I have two of these pedals kicking around I just haven't figured out how to set them up with the MFC.
Q - Does it matter how you set the FS-6 slider switches (Polarity) (Mode Momentary or Latch)?
If for example I want one of these switches to control Ringmod for an octave divider I need to assign the switch using the MFC edit functions or from the AF2?

Thanks

I use a stereo jack -> 2x mono jack cable and hook it into 'switches 1+2'
the switches are set to latch [so I see the LED's light for the on state] and the polarity is normal [switches to the left]
everything else is handled by the modifiers and the MFC config

A switch: misc function [usually a phaser / vibe / pitch shifter]
B switch: toggles between riff mode and solo mode within the same preset
I know this seems counter intuitive, but I have the FS-6 to the left of me, so it makes sense that the B switch is used to switch modes because it's the closest switch to me and is used most often

in the MFC, I have XS1 set to CC21 and XS2 set to CC20 / both are type=HDW / off=000 on=127
CC20 corresponds to modifier: external5
CC21 corresponds to modifier: external6

 

[atquinn]

...They have a smaller less expensive version coming out soon.

Do tell! I'm imagining something LF+ 12+-esque but with RJM's special sauce (whatever that is; I haven't looked much into the MMGT since it is waaaaay out of my price range).
-
Austin

 

[Rexgtr]

Thanks Clarky, that will save me time setting up the external switches with the Boss FS-6 foot switches.

 

[Tele]

Clarky, thanks for that. I really do appreciate it.

hoth: thank you also. I think I'm going to put in an order for the MFC. I really like the looks of that Liquid board though. The LCD screens are so me. LOL! I'm a sucker for stuff like that.

Thanks to everyone that had a hand in directing me....this forum is quite amazing. Thank you all for your kindness and information.

 

[Tele]

I know I've jumped into this post far too late but I thought some of you might be interested in what I use in case you are building a new system & looking for options.

I personally use the Helix Rack but have set it up through my good friend's AXE FX 11 & both units respond in exactly the same way so for clarification I'll refer to the Axe FX11 in this post.

I use the midi thru connector from my Digitech 2101 which in turn is controlled by the Digitech control one foot switch. The pedal has a large 20 character vacuum-fluorescent display that is 100% sunlight viewable with 10 patch switches + 2 additional switches for bank up / down. The pedal operates on the power supplied via the 5 pin MIDI cable so no additional A/C cable is required.

I use the Digitech 2101 as a backup as well in case the Axe FX11 goes down, so it's cheap & practical backup. Having to go into the 2101 to type in the patch name is a bit of a chore but well worth it for me.

For those of you wanting to split the foot pedal using the newer Digitech 2120 or 2112, + Artist is the ticket. It allows you to split the pedal board so it will select 5 patches & dedicate the additional 5 switches to specific tasks such as effects into a on / off role. The Up / Down bank controls can double up for other specified functions such as Solo & Tuner. The only downside here is the 2120 series Digitech products do not sound as good as the older 2101 series processors.

By the way, to this date my old Digitech 2101 still can't be rivaled for sound quality due to the tubes. I've even added a switch whereby option one runs the guitar directly to the Axe FX11 while option two runs the guitar into the 2101 first then out to the Axe FX11 & the difference is outstanding. The tones have a personality and bite that transistors alone cannot match regardless of what a DSP tries to mimic. Tubes is tubes baby!

Cheers

 

[Danny Danzi]

By the way, to this date my old Digitech 2101 still can't be rivaled for sound quality due to the tubes. I've even added a switch whereby option one runs the guitar directly to the Axe FX11 while option two runs the guitar into the 2101 first then out to the Axe FX11 & the difference is outstanding. The tones have a personality and bite that transistors alone cannot match regardless of what a DSP tries to mimic. Tubes is tubes baby!

Cheers

2101 die hard here as well. However, your AxeFxII can obliterate the 2101 if you know what you're doing and the AxeFx II will cop the tubes exactly. All you have to do is tone match your best sound using stuff in your Axe that sounds like the sound in your 2101. For example, I have mine tone matched so tight, the Axe sounds better. The reason being? The 2101 is limited in the actual tone sculpting area. It has voicings, not modeling and there are WAY more tweaks that improve sound quality on the Axe. Trust me when I tell you....do you know how the 2101 sort of falls short in certain tone areas?

Like....you wish you could dial it in a little tighter or have a little more control? The Axe gives you all that extra tweaking that will get the tone closer. I'm hoping you use the Saturated/Distorted Tube tone? If not, all the other distortions are transistor. But if you use the ST like I used to, to get your Axe to sound like that, use the Marshall Mod amp along with the TS 808 OD or the Bender Fuzz. Get it close and then do a tone match of your best 2101 sound. Add it in and you'll nail it perfectly. The Bender Fuzz totally nails that Saturated Tube sound, but you will need a tone match of your 2101 to make it complete. If you do this the right way, you'll be blown away because once you nail the tone, fine tuning it is a breeze and you'll get all the stuff you wished you could get out of the 2101.

Trust me man....I've been a 2101 user since they came out. I have about 8 of them around here. The only thing the 2101 does better than the AxeFx is switch patches without a glitch. We of course can nail this using scenes mode, but I'd much rather a preset switch be gapless over engaging "scenes" all the time. But it DOES work, and it works well. Try what I'm telling you and you'll see. Once you have the tone match block, you can save it as a cab block so you can fine tune even more. Quick example on how I do it...

I just tone matched my rhythm sound, from my 2101 which has a little more bite. I created my preset like I told you with the amp and drive block. Got it close, did the tone match and saved it as a cab and called it "2101 Rhythm". From there, I tone matched my lead sound which is warmer and has less high end. After the tone match, I saved that tone match block as a cab block and called it "2101 Lead". This way, when changing scenes in my patch, my rhythm cab was X my lead cab was Y. I'd have both rhythm and lead sounds all in one patch and could switch via scenes. Turn on/off delay etc for leads....it's pretty amazing. And as long as you're in scenes mode, no gaps in changes.

In a side by side comparison between my 2101 and my AxeFxII XL+, the XL+ has this something that I can't get from the 2101. Like...the 2101 is great and has a nice warm tone...but the XL+ has that same tone yet breathes fire. And yes, I get those ferocious pinch harmonics the 2101 saturated tube is famous for. Work with your Axe a little and try this stuff. If and when you nail it, you can retire your 2101 indefinitely and get an AX8 as your back up.