What 1987X mod is?

stevorc321 said:
aftec said:
stevorc321 said:
Will running one plexi sim (with power amp off) into another (with the PA on) give the same effect as jumpering?

You can't disable the PA section of amp blocks.
You disable poweramp in the amp black by turning sag to zero...and you could tweak the non PA amp to resemble the bass channel (if you could be bothered that is). I'm sure there are easier and less CPU intensive ways of getting the same sound though.

:oops: You're completely right. Sorry.
 
Master cranked, Gain at about 4:00, Bass knob rolled almost all the way off, Mid and treble about all the way up. Presence at noon. Into the right cab, sounds heavenly. I like the 75 watt 412. Great model. Definitely has it's own character that is separate from Plexi 1 and 2.
 
VegaBaby said:
The 1987x is a 50watt, compared to the 100watt Plexis which I believe both other models are. They sound quite different.

Here are a couple of pics of a PCB from a '75 metal face 1987 (I replaced it with a turret board) and it is the same as the SL, in fact they apparently used the same boards for both models as it is marked as such - you can see in the pic below, "(x) LEAD UNITS and (S)100w UNITS". A few more components were needed for the power section in the 100w version, the power supply caps. The bright cap was soldered to the Treble channel volume pot, I preferred this removed. Some of the original plexis had a slightly different input stack, and no bright cap or a lower value.
[attachment=1:3g24igrc]1987pcb2.jpg[/attachment:3g24igrc]
[attachment=0:3g24igrc]1987pcb1.jpg[/attachment:3g24igrc]

Yes, they do sound different besides just output volume but it's more subtle IMO especially if you record each and play back at the same volume. I think that the tube types used in the power section made more tonal difference than doubling from 50w to 100w -KT66's, EL34's, 6550, etc. Although, the 100w amps supposedly had more sag when cranked up as the power supply couldn't keep up with it.

I do wish that the jumpered channels could be emulated on the AxeFX.
 

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Maybe you could run a Bassman amp block (bass input) in parallel with the Plexi, and blend the two. :lol: Not the same, I know.
 
axel said:
Maybe you could run a Bassman amp block (bass input) in parallel with the Plexi, and blend the two. :lol: Not the same, I know.

Tonally you might get close if you disabled the PA on one of the amps....

I still maintain you can get there WITHOUT all those gyrations tho.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
Master cranked, Gain at about 4:00, Bass knob rolled almost all the way off, Mid and treble about all the way up. Presence at noon. Into the right cab, sounds heavenly. I like the 75 watt 412. Great model. Definitely has it's own character that is separate from Plexi 1 and 2.


+1
 
yek said:
Karl Houseknecht said:
Master cranked, Gain at about 4:00, Bass knob rolled almost all the way off, Mid and treble about all the way up. Presence at noon. Into the right cab, sounds heavenly. I like the 75 watt 412. Great model. Definitely has it's own character that is separate from Plexi 1 and 2.


+1

I will definately give those settings a shot tonight. I liked the model but I only had a few minutes to play with it. I could tell I was going to have to jack with the EQ a lot though to get anything I could gig with out of it. I'm looking forward to trying these as a starting point.

D
 
Karl,

I tried those settings last night and they definately rock and made that amp come to life for me! I wouldn't have stuck with it long enough to try such radical eq settings, so I'm glad you posted those. I loved it just as you posted it, and I knew quickly it was probably going to replace my Plexi 2 patch. It did.

I needed a less driven plexi sound for the stuff I'm doing over the next week, so I tweaked it some. I settled on backing the drive off somewhere between 4.5 and 5.5 (can't remember) and using the 4x12 25 watt cab with an SM57. It sounds sick!

I'm trying it at a band rehearsal tonight, and if it passes inspection I'll use it at my gigs the next two nights and over the weekend.

Thanks!
D
 
Checked these out last night, and with some minor tweaks, this is a great preset. To me it sounds more 'Marshall' than many of the other models I've used. It already replaced my 'heavy' Plexi Patch. Some people were complaining about Sag here, and at these values, I don't get that at all.

Doesn't seem to work as well with the slightly driven Plexi stuff, but great sounding Model.

That is all.

Ron
 
As I said in my earlier post, this is exactly how I would set up the real 1987X that I had. Bass almost off and everything else dimed (or close anyway). That's how this amp sounds good and not shockingly it's also how this model sounds good.

p
 
As I said in my earlier post, this is exactly how I would set up the real 1987X that I had. Bass almost off and everything else dimed (or close anyway). That's how this amp sounds good and not shockingly it's also how this model sounds good.

This is very interesting, however it doesn't reflect my experience at all, unless your talking about the normal channel which is fairly dark. It is my understanding that this sim is based on the bright channel and my experience with it would indicate that it is indeed a bright channel.

I find that cranking the output vol to about 9, gain about 4-6, rollback on the treble and mid's a little, increase the sag, low cut about 200, hi cut around 5k, and use some rolloff on the guitar freq gets me a sound that is very close to a 1987 with jumpered channels. I haven't done a direct comparison yet, but I played this amp for many years and have modded them, fixed them...done just about everything imaginable to them. I feel like I know this sound very well (and I say that with all humility, knowing that the psychacoustic phenomena is real, but I literally know the schematic and variations simply by memory). I am playing a strat into a Maudio delta 1010lt soundcard and into some Sampson resolve 80a monitors (that may be my problem :( ). I am also setting the low cut to around 200 and high cut at about 5k - even lower will work depending on how much tone cut you use on the guitar. I am also using a fairly low volume so more treble might need to be cut even more as the volume goes up to gig levels.

I am getting a real nice top end, very crisp and snappy (one thing I love about the marshall top end on the bright channel) and also getting a nice bottem. I refer to it as grok, ...i know what the heck is grok. It just refers to that low end you get from a nice marshall into a 4x12, tight but thick and dark, with a sense of power behind it...wish I could describe it better.

I could gig very happily with this sound; I consider it to be a great marshal tone; sustains very well -articulate with rudeness to it. The amp cleans up very well, just like a real one; that crispy top end enhances the sense of cleaness. The one thing that is not quite there for me yet is this; in my experience with the real deal is -as you crank the guitar volume and the power amp starts working harder, that snappy top end starts to get muted; the amp darkens up. While there are many ways to compensate for this in the axefx, I am not quite getting the degree of power amp darkness I seem to remember from my marshall (any of them). I have noticed this with the fenders also.

Any ideas about this would be appreciated and any thoughts on how I am running this sim would also be appreciated. And please note that I am note saying anyones methods are wrong, if your getting sound that inspires you, then you are successfully programing this unit, period (imho)

Almost forgot, I using the 4x12 30 watt cab - settings would definately be different with a different cab
 
I think you both have set up great patches. This is the beauty. Plexi's have so many different faces it's nice to see them all. (Caswell anyone?)

I tried your setup GuitarMike, and love it. It does have that 'meanness' that you want from a Marshall, but will clean up nicely. This reminds me much more of a Led Zep tone than anything else (doesn't hurt that I have JP wiring on my Les Paul...) It did force me to back off the tone knob on the Bridge pickup when flat out, but that's a good thing...

Good stuff guys. Tweak away.

Ron
 
I think that we can conclude that the 1987x sim is a great addition - very flexable and musical. Now, I've been messin' around with the Shiva lead...all I can say is, this is an incredibly versatile amp sim and may become my favorite.

Any tricks on getting the power amp to darken up a little more? Does anyone else notice this on the axe?
 
guitarmike said:
This is very interesting, however it doesn't reflect my experience at all, unless your talking about the normal channel which is fairly dark. It is my understanding that this sim is based on the bright channel and my experience with it would indicate that it is indeed a bright channel.

Bright Channel with the bright cap clipped, I believe.
 
Bright Channel with the bright cap clipped, I believe.

My understanding as well - the bright cap, attached to the volume pot, adds a lot of brightness to the channel and in my opinion, makes it too bright. However when the channels are jumpered, it allows you to mix the (too) dark normal channel in. This results in a great tone. With the bright cap removed, this channel becomes much more usable (imo) by itself. Wouldn't this be essentially the same as the plexi model with the bright cap - which is selectable - removed. I would think so, but haven't compared the two directly. I would suspect that there are other differences also, I believe a .oo2uf (1987) coupling cap as apposed to .o2. I have also seen the .002 cap in older 1987's. While you can tell, it doesn't make as much difference as you might think. In any event, I beleive the 1987x sim to be the most accurate sim according to my experience with these amps. In actual usage, I have never seen a new 1987 that sounded as good as an old one (maybe in my head ;) ). One must keep in mind that there are many other factors beside the components that effect the sound and feel of these amps. Namely, the voltage levels. They vary anywhere between 360 vdc and 480vdc based on my experience. I have seen voltage levels that would simply melt "not up to spec" tubes. I have noticed that the ones above about 420 seem stiffer and more brittle. If I had to guess, I would say the 1987x sim sounds and feels more like the lower voltage. I would also suspect the brown model does too. Of course this is mere speculation on my part concerning the sims, but the actual amps (and I can just about guarantee you that eddies variac lowered the voltage) are smoother and have a nicer treble content as well as qiucker and rounder distortion with the lower voltages. Metal guys might like the higher voltages better.

I also believe this sim can emulate the jumpered channel set up just fine. I am not into matching a tone exactly, even two identical marshall's will sound different, it is the vibe of the amp I'm after. It is there with this sim.
 
These new Marshalls are quickly becoming my favourites even though I have never been a Marshall guy due to my dislike of EL34 brittleness.

Tried the Marsha with a Fat Rat and a bit of EQ in front and default or Brownface tonestack - holy smokes what a great sound! And the same for the 1987x.

The Axe is my best music equipment value purchase ever ...
 
Two rehearsals and a gig later, it's official, this amp model absolutely rocks!

I'm basically using the settings Karl posted but with the 4x12 25 watt cab and SM57. I have two patches like this, one with a little less gain than he described and one with a lot less gain than he described. Both patches sound fantastic on their own and in the mix. I've struggled to get exactly the Plexi sounds I had in my head, but now I've pretty well closed the gap with this amp model. I'm sure I'll continue to slightly tweak things but changes will be small and few from this point on I think.

D
 
North said:
These new Marshalls are quickly becoming my favourites even though I have never been a Marshall guy due to my dislike of EL34 brittleness.

Tried the Marsha with a Fat Rat and a bit of EQ in front and default or Brownface tonestack - holy smokes what a great sound! And the same for the 1987x.

The Axe is my best music equipment value purchase ever ...

I've noticed Nuno Bettancourt using a Rat in front of his Randall amp (which is basically a hot-rodded plexi). When you use it, are you using to boost an already dirty or semi-clean Marsha?
 
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