Way more break-up than real amps?

E

esignor

New Member
Ive been using the deluxe reverb amp a lot more (Deluxe Verb Vib) recently. Don't get me wrong im loving some of the sounds I'm getting its seems like Im having an issue with clean head room. I happened to be a Guitar center today and i plugged into one of the reissues and just played around with where the amp starts to break up. Even with a guitar that has hotter pickups I didn't notice any break up until after 4 on the knob and this was nominal compared to what Im getting with the input drive on 3. Yes, i know i can lower the input trim but I was using input one on the real deluxe so you would think my experiences would be similar.

Maybe the one they modeled was vintage and they have more break up? My guitar has SD seth lovers in which are pretty low output for humbuckers and I get quite a bit of overdrive with the input drive at 3 and the trim at 1


any insight?

thanks
 
just reduce the trim like you said until it does what you want. that's why it's there. every amp is different. even the same exact model.
 
Does the real amp have knobs that go from 0-10? If not then you're not getting a 1:1 ratio in any case...

Also, if I remember correctly, the Vibrato channel on the modeled amp has an additional gain stage or something, which is why both normal and Vibrato Channels are modeled.

From yek's amp guide (which confirmed my question about the knobs):

“We got our reference Deluxe Reverb out
of storage today, hooked it up and
measured and compared. Gain measures
spot-on and A/B testing sounds identical.
With a Suhr Modern guitar with stock
pickups both the amp and the model were
starting to break up around 3 (which
equals 2.2 on the Axe-Fx since the knobs
start at zero not one). A Deluxe Reverb
breaks up easily since it has 6V6 power
tubes. The preamp is virtually identical to
a Twin Reverb but 6V6s break up earlier
than 6L6s. For a given voltage into the
power amp a 6V6 has about 70% of the
headroom compared to a 6L6.”
“The values for the Deluxe Reverb model
are based on measurements of an actual
65 Deluxe Reverb, not some hypothetical
values on some spec sheet.”
Click to expand...
 
The chart from page 300 of Yek's guide (everyone should have this in memory or on a disk somewhere):
Screenshot_20190812-174302_Opera.jpg
 
esignor said:
Ive been using the deluxe reverb amp a lot more (Deluxe Verb Vib) recently. Don't get me wrong im loving some of the sounds I'm getting its seems like Im having an issue with clean head room. I happened to be a Guitar center today and i plugged into one of the reissues and just played around with where the amp starts to break up. Even with a guitar that has hotter pickups I didn't notice any break up until after 4 on the knob and this was nominal compared to what Im getting with the input drive on 3. Yes, i know i can lower the input trim but I was using input one on the real deluxe so you would think my experiences would be similar.

Maybe the one they modeled was vintage and they have more break up? My guitar has SD seth lovers in which are pretty low output for humbuckers and I get quite a bit of overdrive with the input drive at 3 and the trim at 1


any insight?

thanks
Click to expand...
Just about ever gig I tried doing with my real Fender Deluxe Deluxe Reverb (I had a silver face version), I'd eventually think to myself, "Damn, if it just had a bit more clean headroom!" So something else to keep in mind -- it's not a real amp and doesn't have a real amp's limitations! If you like the cleans you're getting with the Deluxe Verb Nrm (it's one of my personal favorite clean sounds in the AX8) and you want more volume...just turn up the Level in the Amp block, right? It sooooo cool being able to do stuff like this!
 
LeonC said:
Just about ever gig I tried doing with my real Fender Deluxe Deluxe Reverb (I had a silver face version), I'd eventually think to myself, "Damn, if it just had a bit more clean headroom!" So something else to keep in mind -- it's not a real amp and doesn't have a real amp's limitations! If you like the cleans you're getting with the Deluxe Verb Nrm (it's one of my personal favorite clean sounds in the AX8) and you want more volume...just turn up the Level in the Amp block, right? It sooooo cool being able to do stuff like this!
Click to expand...

I have a '66 Deluxe Noun (no 'verb). It's the perfect small gig amp, especially if you redo the trem circuit for bias wiggle instead of optocoupler roach. Then it works on both channels, and doesn't load down the VIBRATO channel's output. You can jumper in-phase on these, so it is handy for a lead boost to add the other channel. A volume pedal with a tuner out works great for this. Tuner out to where you set up your rhythm level/tone, then regular out to the other channel to set your lead boost up. I also set up a different tone stack on the NORMAL channel, so it has more mids to push the guitar forward in the mix a bit more....

Have you tried a '60 Super 6G4 or Concert 6G12?

Gorgeous sounding amps. The early ones had a really good tone stack and only 5 preamp tubes. The later -A models were a step closer to BF.

I foresee a Weber Kit with a 6G4 built in it once my bench is finally out of mothballs. In the meantime, the Fractal models are really good, and I just played a real 6G12 last Friday. Kicking myself for passing on the 6G4 back in '92 for $400....
 
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Ha!! I did bias-vary trem mod on mine too and did a couple other tweaks as well.

I built my own 6G4a amp too, lol! I still have that one. I originally built it with the Normal channel from a 6G3...that thing was a friggen T-Rex!! Eventually reversed it back to stock. Love that harmonic tremolo. And 2x10!!! Love!!!

Got demos of both on my YT channel, FWIW. /leonc1234
 
chris said:
just reduce the trim like you said until it does what you want. that's why it's there. every amp is different. even the same exact model.
Click to expand...
So the input trim not the gain level? When you reduce the input trim do you have to increase the level to keep the same volume. I'm having the same issue. I'm down to .8 gain on my DR. When I hit it with a drive you can't play chords it's so distorted.
 
Is that chart from Yek correct for the current Axe FXIII?

I play hard like SRV and Paul Gilbert, and even at really low gain levels on Fender amps in the Axe FXIII I find it difficult to get a totally clean sound. No problem at on on my real amp counterparts. On the real amps hitting the strings harder on amps set for a clean sound just makes the volume a little louder on my Fenders and Vox. Now if I set the amps volume higher, at the edge of breakup, then hitting the strings harder will drive it into mild distortion. I literally have to change the way I play when using the Axe FXIII instead of real amps. I have to hit the strings way softer when playing through the Axe FXIII.
 
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trancegodz said:
Is that chart from Yek correct for the current Axe FXIII?

I play hard like SRV and even at really low gain levels on Fender amps in the Axe FXIII I find it difficult to get a totally clean sound. No problem at on on my real amp counterparts. On the real amps hitting the strings harder on amps set for a clean sound just makes the volume a little louder on my Fenders and Vox. Now if I set the amps volume higher, at the edge of breakup, then hitting the strings harder will drive it into mild distortion. I literally have to change the way I play when using the Axe FXIII instead of real amps. I have to hit the strings way softer when playing through the Axe FXIII. I wish this wasn't the case, but I have not found a way around it so far.
Click to expand...
Hmmm. I find the Fenders sound fantastic clean, but in some cases in the newest FW, I am reducing Input Gain a bit more than previously, and compensate with Level. I don’t know about the accuracy of Yek’s chart, but things have changed in the last few FWs for sure. Obviously (you are a long time user and don’t need to be told but..) uSing your ears is the best way to tweak.
 
bradlake said:
Hmmm. I find the Fenders sound fantastic clean, but in some cases in the newest FW, I am reducing Input Gain a bit more than previously, and compensate with Level. I don’t know about the accuracy of Yek’s chart, but things have changed in the last few FWs for sure. Obviously (you are a long time user and don’t need to be told but..) uSing your ears is the best way to tweak.
Click to expand...

I'm loving the sound and the Axe FX. I play a 54 custom shop Stratocaster with stock pickups. The Axe FX does seem to be more touch sensitive than my amps, and seems to be set up for players with a lighter touch than I have. With the Axe FXIII there are the "authentic" controls to match what the controls do on their real amp counterparts. If I set the controls exactly the same as for the sweet spot for clean sounds on my real 59 Bassman, or Super Reverb, which is with the volume on about 3 or 4, it is more distorted on the Axe FX. My way around it so far is to lower the gain more than I need to on the real amps, cut the trim in half, or play with a lighter touch than I do when using real amps.

If Yek's chart posted above is correct it looks like we need to set the volume level a bit lower on the Axe FX to equal the same setting on it's real amp counterpart. I'd never seen that chart before. According to that chart to match my real 59 Bassman's volume set at 4.00 I'd need to lower the Axe FX volume to 2.73, because the real amp's volume goes to 12. This would explain why the Axe FX is more distorted at the same settings than it's real amp counterpart (59 Bassman).
 
Also ensure your output isn’t clipping.
page over from main screen 2-3
initially when I setup I had some clipping on the output.
some amps do this more then others when auditioning
 
trancegodz said:
Is that chart from Yek correct for the current Axe FXIII?

I play hard like SRV and Paul Gilbert, and even at really low gain levels on Fender amps in the Axe FXIII I find it difficult to get a totally clean sound. No problem at on on my real amp counterparts. On the real amps hitting the strings harder on amps set for a clean sound just makes the volume a little louder on my Fenders and Vox. Now if I set the amps volume higher, at the edge of breakup, then hitting the strings harder will drive it into mild distortion. I literally have to change the way I play when using the Axe FXIII instead of real amps. I have to hit the strings way softer when playing through the Axe FXIII.
Click to expand...

post the preset?

also, what pickups?
 
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