Wanna set up to FOH, but have dumb questions...

Jeggz

Jeggz

Inspired
Ok so I did the first gig with the FM3 going to a mic’d Recto cab. But the soundman suggested I really should use the FOH features of the unit.

Ok

I know I need to branch off and make Out1 left XLR to FOH, and Out 2 left 1/4 to the PowerAmp and cab, but how do you audition things before you get to the gig?

What’s best?

Headphones?

A powered studio monitor?

Is it something that’s gotta be done on the fly, at the venue that first time?
 
For the FOH side a powered FRFR PA speaker is best, after that headphones and/or studio monitors. But at the end of the day, it’s not going to be the same as what the FOH is so you will be dependent on the Sound guy to some extent.
 
If you don't have a PA or other (loud) FRFR to test then you're results might be less than great using headphones.

Try to find an IR (or several) that is using the same speakers, cab, mic that you use live.

You can have a Cab block already saved in your preset and then you can quickly flip between them to see what works best.
 
I’ve a single KRK 5inch monitor and headphones.

I guess I’ll start with the monitor and then tweak on the fly at the gig, whenever that happens again.

Thanks
 
Jeggz said:
I’ve a single KRK 5inch monitor and headphones.

I guess I’ll start with the monitor and then tweak on the fly at the gig, whenever that happens again.

Thanks
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Try and get that monitor loud, like gig volume but not distorting the speaker, and ideally in the context of a band mix (bass drums etc.)

Then try it out at rehearsal first, or see if you can borrow a pa speaker one afternoon.
 
No matter what, you are ALWAYS at the mercy of the FOH sound engineer. It's only a matter of degrees.
A lot of guitarists think what they hear coming out of their onstage cabinet is what they hear out front. It isn't. That sound is colored by the mic, it's placement in relation to the speaker (remember, it's next to the speaker, you're several feet, or even yards, away), and the room.
Using the direct out to FOH actually gives you MORE control over what the sound is like out front. If you've auditioned the tone at volume, at least you know what it sounds like before it gets to the FOH engineer. It is more likely that the sound you have spent time working on translates to the FOH through the direct out than using a mic'd cabinet. You can only guess what the mic'd sound is, unless you're brave enough to stick your ears next to the speakers.
Don't over-stress it. Fractal products produce great tone for direct FOH usage. Use them like they were meant to be used. Audition your sounds at a decent volume. If you like them, then the crowd will like them.
 
jclemensfl said:
No matter what, you are ALWAYS at the mercy of the FOH sound engineer. It's only a matter of degrees.
A lot of guitarists think what they hear coming out of their onstage cabinet is what they hear out front. It isn't. That sound is colored by the mic, it's placement in relation to the speaker (remember, it's next to the speaker, you're several feet, or even yards, away), and the room.
Using the direct out to FOH actually gives you MORE control over what the sound is like out front. If you've auditioned the tone at volume, at least you know what it sounds like before it gets to the FOH engineer. It is more likely that the sound you have spent time working on translates to the FOH through the direct out than using a mic'd cabinet. You can only guess what the mic'd sound is, unless you're brave enough to stick your ears next to the speakers.
Don't over-stress it. Fractal products produce great tone for direct FOH usage. Use them like they were meant to be used. Audition your sounds at a decent volume. If you like them, then the crowd will like them.
Click to expand...

This 100% 👆🏻

Tweak on a frfr speaker at gig volume and hope for the best with the foh engineer.

Try to be absolutely comfortable with your monitoring system... tweak your sounds so they are pleasing to YOU. Sound guy would take care of what the audience will hear, but if your sound is good to you it will be for your patrons too (except there are guitar players among the audience... specially if they use other modest brands or are tube amp purists)
 
Jeggz said:
Is the Headrush 8 inch frfr good for this purpose?

It’s small and cheap enough.
Click to expand...

The HR 8 FRFR will get you there. What you hear from the HR will translate well to FOH. I used two of them before and had great tones. Loud enough to hear yourself over the rest of the band as well. Strictly using a Friedman ASM 12 now.
 
Using the FOH feed makes it much easier on the tech.
Be ready to adjust (on the fly):
Overall level
Boost level
Basic EQ

Same as if you are mic'ed, right? Just gotta practice getting through the menus. I do this alot, but I'm a preparation freak. I practice my menu-diving in a half dark room with the TV blaring. My older eyes do not want to see small white button labels. So i can either memorize the menus, or whip out the reading glasses.
;)
 
Intoodeep1113 said:
One additional word of caution, an FRFR on the floor will sound way more boomy/bassy than one lifted up on a speaker pole at a gig. Get the FRFR PA speaker up at ear level and preferably not in a corner.
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Yes. When comparing a monitor to a speaker on a pole and everything being equal. But things are not equal and other variables to be mindful of:
  • most sound systems have crossovers and subwoofers to cover lower frequencies
  • those mains on a pole sound very bright during soundcheck but when the room fills up, bodies absorb a lot of high end
  • guitars are traditionally midrange instruments and should be very careful in those lower frequencies vs bass, kick and keys
  • a monitor is pointing ear level so unsure why you'd want to "up"?

I've been going direct on and off for 10 years with half that time also using IEMs. Every situation has pros and cons. My reco is a few best practices:
1) recognize the soundguy is gonna adjust your tone to what the mix and room need. they did it when they mic'd you, no different. send them a good signal, give it a listen, and if it sounds good and darn close to what you want, let it be so they can focus on the mix and room.
2) have your own monitoring system FRFR! IEMs work great, I've own both JBL PRX612 and QSC k10 and they works great. They sound darn near the same as any other PA I've plugged into. Atomic CLR sounds amazing but what I heard from it vs the mains was very different and would not call it FRFR.

These days I bring a small rack with an ART 3 way splitter and Alesis mixer. Plug in my electric, acoustic, vox and grab any other front line monitor mix and do a quick submix from the stage and either feed my QSC k10 or Westone Ambient Pros. This provides the FOH unadultered signals of my 3 feeds and full control of my monitor mix.
 
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I’m surprised more people haven’t done this, but if you don’t have a PA you can crank up through, I’d rent a rehearsal space for a couple hours to go in and tweak. Maybe make a band practice out of it so you can hear how everything is fitting in with everyone else.

I don’t know what rehearsal spaces are like in your area, but generally in every decent size city you have a selection to choose from that offer a small, vocals only PA up to mid-size PA’s and up to full blown systems with subs and all that. If you can get it sounding great on a smaller PA, it’ll generally translate pretty well to a bigger PA.
 
Jeggz said:
Hahahahaha

Maybe a mic’d Recto cab ain’t so bad...
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HAHA! Right?? Self monitoring can be cumbersome. Til you do a few gigs with dialing in your own monitor mix and being in heaven and then do a show without. YIKES!! LOL. Also works out well for IEMs and less monitors to carry or stage volume.

These things also help with hearing, placement in mix, integrating parts, improving the performance.

My goals are to have great tone on a quieter stage, hear everyone clearly, and deliver an awesome performance and entertain folks. Things I do are in support of that. But everyone's goals could be different :)
 
Nor said:
Using the FOH feed makes it much easier on the tech.
Be ready to adjust (on the fly):
Overall level
Boost level
Basic EQ

Same as if you are mic'ed, right? Just gotta practice getting through the menus. I do this alot, but I'm a preparation freak. I practice my menu-diving in a half dark room with the TV blaring. My older eyes do not want to see small white button labels. So i can either memorize the menus, or whip out the reading glasses.
;)
Click to expand...

Set up a "performance page" with most commonly adjusted parameters.
 
strumminsix said:
Yes. When comparing a monitor to a speaker on a pole and everything being equal. But things are not equal and other variables to be mindful of:
  • most sound systems have crossovers and subwoofers to cover lower frequencies
  • those mains on a pole sound very bright during soundcheck but when the room fills up, bodies absorb a lot of high end
  • guitars are traditionally midrange instruments and should be very careful in those lower frequencies vs bass, kick and keys
  • a monitor is pointing ear level so unsure why you'd want to "up"?
Click to expand...

Yes tons of variables to be aware of.
-Hopefully your engineer isn't running electric guitar through the subs, your tone especially for live situations shouldn't have anything going on in the sub range especially if you have a bass player.
- a monitor on the floor pointing at ear level is not the same as a PA speaker at (or above) ear level. There is tons of coupling in the bass frequencies with a speaker mounted on the floor. Some speakers have DSPs built in to compensate for this which helps, but is still an approximation. Basic ones (aka mine) do not!

While I'm far from an expert I have gotten to be on both sides of the mix quite a few times. I love playing EG and running FOH!
 
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