Wah Pedal Question Engage/Disengage

gigawatt

Experienced
Ok, I have set up a wah pedal with an auto engage and I have at the moment disengage when I reach the top of the sweep. Problem is it shuts off immediately whenever I go toe all the way down. I seem to remember there was a "touch wah" on the Ultra that engaged the wah every time you stepped on it and disengaged at a predetermined user setting when you took your foot off the pedal.

The automatic shut off at toe or heel is kind of an issue for me because it shuts off in the middle of what you're playing. Is there an on off time parameter that delays shut off time that I missed? Is there a way to set it up like I explained above like a touch wah? Where it turns on in any position. Lastly, will it work on every preset that has a wah already present, or do I have to manually engage each preset and also change its parameters to my preference?

Thanks much :)
 
You can change one of the parameters in the mod menu so it reaches full toe down value before you actually get to full toe down. So then you just never go toe down until you want to disengage. I believe there is also some different position settings you can try
 
You can change one of the parameters in the mod menu so it reaches full toe down value before you actually get to full toe down. So then you just never go toe down until you want to disengage. I believe there is also some different position settings you can try

Yeah that's exactly what I was doing, but I reversed it to heel down. I'm at the toe of the wah much more than at the heel plus the "wah sweep" seems most prominent in the upper range. I still thought there was a touch wah; touch it and it's on, don't touch it and it shuts off. In any position.
 
Look up auto engage in the user manual.

Oh I did, but I'm not getting it. It seems like one has to go through 5 different menus and look for the little circles and that will turn on the modifier switch so I click on that and go either to the wah pedal "sweep" parameters (as I call them) where you find high 100% mid 50% and low 0% as well as slope and all that jazz. Then there's the Bybass switch and modifier, I've only gotten lucky with this one. Since I switched it to turn off at the heel down position I've been able to live with it. But:

AUTO-ENGAGE TURNS EFFECTS ON/OFF AUTOMATICALLY

If you have used a Wah pedal with no toe-switch, you will instantly understand the principle of “auto engage”. This type of Wah turns on automatically when you rock it forward it and then bypasses when you pull it back. That’s the idea behind Auto-Engage.

Auto-Engage engages or bypasses a block when the
Source of a modifier changes. Once you try it, we believe you will quickly find that this capability comfortably eliminates the need for expression pedal "toe" switches.

??? Kinda vague to me, first how do I even find Auto-Engage? "Source of a modifier changes." What the expression pedal? Wah control, Bypass Switch? I don't get it.

Set it up using two parameters on the
"Modify page:" Which modify page? Wah control? Bypass? Mod 1, Mod 2?

Auto-Engage – Determines whether or not the block will automatically engage or bypass. FAST, MEDIUM and SLOW settings determine how quickly the effect turns ON/OFF once Auto-Engage is triggered. Use SLOW settings to “relax” auto-engage, so your effect doesn’t switch off too suddenly while you’re still using it.

The three POSITION (“POS”) options trigger the effect based on OFF VALUE (see below). The three SPEED (“SPD”) options engage the effect when the controller is moved quickly. Set to “OFF” to disable Auto-Engage.
It looked like to me you can either have POS selected or SPD, not both. Is that correct?

Off Value – Sets the position threshold that the source must cross for auto-engage to occur. When Off Value is set below 50%, the effect is bypassed when the controller goes below that value. If Off Value is set to 50% or higher, the effect is bypassed when the controller goes above that value.
Where do I find this "Off Value" button?

For “heel down = bypassed”, set to 5%. For “toe down = bypassed”, try 95%.

I have it set at 10% now because 5% didn't turn it off. If the above is like I want it to be, which is walk up to the pedal, put my foot on it and it turns on. Then when I take my foot off and walk away from it it shuts off, then my blood pressure will go down considerably... Sigh.

Help!
 
Fast, medium, slow is the parameter you want.

It will determine how long it takes to engage or disengage. Set it skier and it won’t turn off as fast at full heel down
 
How would the Axe-Fx III know if/when you take your foot off of the expression pedal?? (unless it is spring loaded?).. Which ever Auto-Engage type you use, you still have to 'park' the pedal at the "off" position to turn it off.

If it will not turn off when heel down when set to 5%, You need to calibrate the pedal again?
 
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Attach the expression pedal to (only) the 'Control' parameter, not the 'Bypass' parameter (right-click on the 'Control' knob). Set the Source to whatever your expression pedal is mapped to? Set Auto-Engage to 'Med Pos' (or 'Slow Pos'), Off Value to '5%' (or slightly higher if needed), everything else stock.
 
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I seem to remember there was a "touch wah" on the Ultra that engaged the wah every time you stepped on it and disengaged at a predetermined user setting when you took your foot off the pedal.
The Ultra options (slow/med/fast) were equivalent to slow/med/fast position on the II/III. You still had to move the pedal to the off zone for it to disengage, so I don't think you're remembering that entirely correctly.

How would the Axe-Fx III know if/when you take your foot off of the expression pedal?
It wouldn't actually be a foot on/off detector, but a nice option could be to disengage w/ pedal at any position after X ms of no movement.

This may not be exactly what the OP wants but it's possible on the II (and maybe III) to set up autoengage that bypasses whenever the pedal movement is slow enough or stopped, regardless of pedal position:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ression-pedal-not-moving.132276/#post-1565888
 
It wouldn't actually be a foot on/off detector, but a nice option could be to disengage w/ pedal at any position after X ms of no movement.

This may not be exactly what the OP wants but it's possible on the II (and maybe III) to set up autoengage that bypasses whenever the pedal movement is slow enough or stopped, regardless of pedal position:
An interesting work-around (as usual), and could be useful in some instances. But that would drive me crazy on a Wah :confused:. I often times 'park' it in one spot for a bit (for controlled feedback,etc...).
 
Auto-Engage engages or bypasses a block when the Source of a modifier changes. Once you try it, we believe you will quickly find that this capability comfortably eliminates the need for expression pedal "toe" switches.

??? Kinda vague to me, first how do I even find Auto-Engage? "Source of a modifier changes." What the expression pedal? Wah control, Bypass Switch? I don't get it.
Parameter - any one of the options/dials/knobs you see in any block, like Level, Bass, Mids, Control, Volume, etc.

Modifier - a function that can change a Parameter

Source - the list of options for a Modifier, the "thing" that actually does the changing - LFO, External Controller, Pitch, Envelope

so that sentence is saying "Auto-Engage will turn on or turn off a block when you change some other parameter, rather than strictly bypassing the block itself with the Bypass button."

Set it up using two parameters on the "Modify page:" Which modify page? Wah control? Bypass? Mod 1, Mod 2?
whichever one you want to use.

the "Modify Page" is the page you get when you right-click a Parameter that shows the {} symbol. if you look at the page that shows when you right-click, at the top it says "Modifier".

so the Auto-Engage options are on any Modifier page.

Auto-Engage means literally that: Automatically Engage (or Bypass) the block. you don't need to do anything to the block's Bypass button because Auto-Engage is going to handle that depending on the status of another Parameter.

think of Auto-Engage as "Use another Parameter to turn the block on and off." since we're using another parameter, we don't need to think about the Bypass parameter itself ever.

in this case for the Wah, we are using the Control Parameter (which is what makes the Wah "move") to affect Auto-Engage. in other words, by changing the Control Parameter we will affect the block's Bypass/Engage - turning it off and on. we just happen to be using a physical Expression Pedal to change this Control Parameter, so we are talking in terms of Heel down or Toe down.

It looked like to me you can either have POS selected or SPD, not both. Is that correct?
correct.

Position type means that the Wah block will Engage (turn on) once it passes the Off position.

Speed type means that the Wah block will Engage once it passes the Off position but only when the pedal is moved at a brisk speed. this mode was created in case your pedal rocker slowly creeps or falls physically because it's loose. if your pedal is parked at Heel Down which turns the Wah off, but then gravity pulls the loose rocker down, the Wah won't accidentally turn on due to the Speed requirement. if it was set to Position instead though, the moment it fell down incorrectly past the Off value, the Wah would have turned on due to the strict Position setting.

Where do I find this "Off Value" button?
the Off Value is on the Modifier page. this is a picture of the Axe2, but it's very similar on the 3:

Screen Shot 2018-07-09 at 11.29.54 AM.png

I have it set at 10% now because 5% didn't turn it off.
this means the pedal may not be calibrated correctly.

If the above is like I want it to be, which is walk up to the pedal, put my foot on it and it turns on. Then when I take my foot off and walk away from it it shuts off, then my blood pressure will go down considerably
as mentioned by others, how would a pedal know if you put your foot on it? there's no sensor for that. the only way it can know is if the pedal moves at all.

so you have to park your pedal either at Heel Down or Toe Down. that's not too demanding.
 
I use a Mission SP-2 to conserve pedal board space. I don't use a spring loaded pedal, and set the auto engage where toe-down is "off." This work well for me if I switch to a preset where I'm using a volume control as it is already at max (I wouldn't want it heel down, or off, there) and I can leave it toe down going back to most presets where the wah is present so it will be off. Works nicely this way.

This works well for me, but it will more matter what you do with yours to decide. For mine, no spring works best.

Toe up/toe down isn't what it's looking for; it's looking for a rate of change. You can leave the pedal in any position, and it'll turn off in X amount of time if it isn't used, and X amount of time if it is. X is variable, and adjustable to several different settings. There's some difference in response time for on/off, but I've never measured it. So, you don't need a spring to return it to any particular position.

No, to disengage it has to be in the off zone, determined by the Off Value.

Cliff stated that engaging (not disengaging) is speed-based but it's not working with CCs as far as I can tell, and there might be something funny about the pedal port too. More details here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-bugs/68117-random-autoengage-w-pedal-source.html#post879527

It wouldn't actually be a foot on/off detector, but a nice option could be to disengage w/ pedal at any position after X ms of no movement.

This may not be exactly what the OP wants but it's possible on the II (and maybe III) to set up autoengage that bypasses whenever the pedal movement is slow enough or stopped, regardless of pedal position:

An interesting work-around (as usual), and could be useful in some instances. But that would drive me crazy on a Wah :confused:. I often times 'park' it in one spot for a bit (for controlled feedback,etc...).


Found an old thread when I did a search for Mission pedals. IDK, I kinda like @Rick 's idea with toe forward off, he makes some good points.

It wouldn't actually be a foot on/off detector, but a nice option could be to disengage w/ pedal at any position after X ms of no movement.

This may not be exactly what the OP wants but it's possible on the II (and maybe III) to set up autoengage that bypasses whenever the pedal movement is slow enough or stopped, regardless of pedal position:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ression-pedal-not-moving.132276/#post-1565888

An interesting work-around (as usual), and could be useful in some instances. But that would drive me crazy on a Wah :confused:. I often times 'park' it in one spot for a bit (for controlled feedback,etc...).

Spring loaded mission pedal makes auto engage a much cooler feature for sure

OK my head is about to explode, and I haven't even read the posts that have been made since I was writing this! Ope! Dinner time!
 
OK my head is about to explode, and I haven't even read the posts that have been made since I was writing this! Ope! Dinner time!
it's pretty straight-forward. the only requirement is that you need to park the pedal either at Heel down or Toe down.

once you've decided that, on the Control Parameter's Modifier menu, set the Off parameter to around 5% or around 95% respectively and try any of the Auto-Engage options - Medium Speed will probably work for you.

that's it.
 
FYI... I setup mine for toe-off (95%) for lots of reasons.
  1. I have 3 expression pedals, all very close to each other, the other 2 are normally 'toe down' when not in use. If I attempt to use one of the other pedals I am likely to bump the one controlling the Wah and inadvertently turn it on.
  2. Vibrations on larger stages would sometimes cause my pedal to drift toward the toe and inadvertently turn it on (this was before the newer options were added).
  3. I don't spend as much time at the very high-end of the Wah anyway, so I'm less likely to accidentally turn it off.
  4. My old Wah pedals all had toe switches, so I was already used to returning them to the toe position anyway?
 
as mentioned by others, how would a pedal know if you put your foot on it? there's no sensor for that. the only way it can know is if the pedal moves at all.

Thanks very much Chris for the detailed explanation :).

The pedal would know if it got rocked slightly, but only if the off value is set 50.0% for the forward half or 49.9% for the back half and any number in between. See, I'm paying attention ;). I noticed on one preset I had 3 modifiers running, one for wah control, one for output level and one for bypass that kept flickering, and the wah wouldn't shut off. After shutting off the latter two and I just had wah control going I was able to set the correct modifier to the settings I wanted. That's the only parameter I want to modify correct?

Ok, from what I remember the mod graph looked like a elongated S, so I have the start at 0%, mid at 50%, end at 100% and slope at 100%. Scale at 1, offset 0, attack 10.1 ms, release 43 ms, auto engage slow spd, off value 50% (subject to change), pc reset off, update rate slow.

and channel- all, min 0.00, max 10.00

What is PC Reset?
 
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I... I setup mine for toe-off (95%) for lots of reasons.

Thanks for all your help Moke, that's probably what I'll end up doing in the end. I gotta start using Axe III editor...

So I guess I have to do this with all presets with wah if I want to use it? It's not a global thing is it?
 
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Thanks very much Chris for the detailed explanation :).

The pedal would know if it got rocked slightly, but only if the off value is set 50.0% for the forward half or 49.9% for the bottom half and any number in between. See, I'm paying attention ;). I noticed on one preset I had 3 modifiers running, one for wah control, one for output level and one for bypass that kept flickering, and the wah wouldn't shut off. After shutting off the latter two and I just had wah control going I was able to set the correct modifier to the settings I wanted. That's the only parameter I want to modify correct?

Ok, from what I remember the mod graph looked like a elongated S, so I have the start at 0%, mid at 50%, end at 100% and slope at 100%. Scale at 1, offset 0, attack 10.1 ms, release 43 ms, auto engage slow spd, off value 50% (subject to change), pc reset off, update rate slow.

and channel all, min 0.00, max 10.00

What is PC Reset?
the curve of the graph should probably be a straight line from bottom left to top right - try the Slope at 50% instead, that's default.

PC reset is a Program Change reset. with that On, when you load the Preset, it will ignore the Pedal position and instead start at the saved value on the Parameter itself (not any setting in the Modifier menu). for a Wah pedal, you most likely want this off.
 
PC reset is a Program Change reset.
for a Wah pedal, you most likely want this off.

Ok thanks, glad it isn't anything more to worry about :rolleyes:. The S curved graph was something I learned from another user with the Ultra and it seemed to augment the "wah" or "cry" effect. Those posts don't exist anymore correct?

This was posted by @Bakerman Nov. 11th 2017: The rest of the post can be seen here:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ression-pedal-not-moving.132276/#post-1565888

Wah - Auto turn off when expression pedal not moving

Bypassing via auto-engage typically requires returning to the "off zone" defined by "off val" parameter in the modifier menu. I'm guessing you had the off zone at the opposite end of pedal travel with the Ultra.

There is a way to make it bypass with pedal parked anywhere, but it might bypass the block undesirably during slower pedal movement. If you want to try this it requires adding a second modifier to level or balance. (Note balance Min & Max are set to keep balance at 0.)

IbVDZK4.jpg


Do you guys understand what he's saying?
 
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