ok i spent WAY too long comparing all this haha.
to address the quoted text, yes, on FM9, using SPD type with Init Value set to 100% when Auto-Engage is set to 5% does keep the Wah block off as (probably) desired when no pedal is present.
but that's just an outlier in the full data set and not the real problem or solution i think. perhaps it was the solution before (and for FM9 now) when INIT value was not really respected at the Pedal jacks.
variables for this test were
SPD vs POS Auto-Engage type
INIT Value at 0% vs 100%
Auto-Engage Off value at 5% vs 95%
all permutations of these have to be tested on both devices, and it took a while! i did not mix in PC Reset, which would have increased the time needed. there is a lot of nuance to all of this. i tried to be clear, but it does require understanding several details about the systems.
i will redact my previous long post as i did not consider SPD vs POS in those results, so they are flawed.
--
first, contrary to my previous statement, it seems that INIT does affect Pedal jacks. there was a long period of time where that wasn't the case, so i must have missed an update or just not registered that in my mind.
you can see/prove this when a pedal is not attached by changing the Init value while looking at the Control parameter, which shows the Control parameter changing in step with Init Value. (before the update on Gen3 hardware that allowed Parameters with Modifiers attached to show the exact value as it changes, and not just a static stored value, this was not possible to see, but may have still been happening.)
SUMMARY (further specific details at end of post)
it seems that the FM3
does respect the INIT value on boot (Wah Control is at 0% or 100% corresponding to INIT value setting), while the FM9
does not respect the INIT value on boot (Wah Control is always at 100%). this could be due to the hardware difference (FM3 can host 2 switches vs FM9 just one per jack), or could just be firmware/programming.
--
here's the data i collected:
AE = Auto-Engage Off value
External 1 set to Pedal 1 and Modifier in Wah Control is set to External 1
no pedal attached at boot
% signs removed for clarity
FM3 -
SPD type Auto-Engage
Init 0 AE 95 - Wah is OFF at boot, not really expected with these "opposite" settings, it's how SPD works
Init 100 AE 5 - Wah is OFF at boot, not really expected with these "opposite" settings, it's how SPD works
POS type Auto-Engage
Init 0 AE 95 - Wah is ON at boot, expected with these values
Init 100 AE 5 - Wah is ON at boot, expected with these values
So it seems on FM3 with "opposite" Init and AE:
SPD type "ignores" INIT and keeps the block off, not really expected with "opposite" Init and AE values
POS type respects INIT and keeps the block on with these "opposite" values, as expected
the way SPD vs POS "realize" when their threshold is passed probably explains this
FM9 -
SPD type Auto-Engage
Init 0 AE 95 - Wah is OFF at boot - matches FM3
Init 100 AE 5 - Wah is OFF at boot - matches FM3
POS type Auto-Engage
Init 0 AE 95 -
Wah is OFF at boot. <-- does not match FM3 (this shows INIT is not respected at boot. Pedal is always 100% at boot)
Init 100 AE 5 - Wah is ON at boot - matches FM3
All of the above were with "opposite" values - INIT making the pedal Toe down and AE turning off at Heel down, and vice-versa.
--
testing "matched" values between INIT and AE Off value on FM9 shows this:
SPD
Init 0 AE 5 -
ON, not expected (but happens because INIT value is not respected on FM9)
Init 100 AE 95 - off as expected
POS
Init 0 AE 5 -
ON, not expected (but happens because INIT value is not respected on FM9)
Init 100 AE 95 - off as expected
(FM3 with same tests were all off as expected because values match and INIT is respected)
you can see here that the FM9 is basically forcing 100% for the External Controller at boot, as both INIT 100% results are as expected, but both INIT 0% results are not as expected.
you can further see this if you look at the Control parameter (in this case) on boot:
FM3 -
Init 0, Wah Control Value at 0 on boot
Init 100, Wah Control Value at 10 on boot
FM9 -
Init 0,
Wah Control Value at 10 on boot
Init 100, Wah Control Value at 10 on boot
for FM9, once you change presets, open the modifier menu, or change the Init value, the Control parameter does "update" and follow it.
--
so ultimately the FM9 does not respect INIT value for Pedal jacks on boot, while the FM3 does.
if the FM9 (and possibly Axe3) could match behavior of the FM3, we could just match INIT with AE Off values logically.
Conclusion with current Auto-Engage Behavior:
In all cases
you want your Auto-Engage blocks OFF at boot
your Expression Pedal is not connected at boot
you set External Controllers to Pedal jacks and use these External Controllers as the Modifier Source
FM9
Auto-Engage Off value is 5% (Heel Down)
you MUST set
SPD type for Auto-Engage AND
set INIT value for that External Controller to 100%
(this is the weird one because FM9 does not respect INIT value, yet 100% INIT setting does the trick??)
Auto-Engage Off value is 95% (Toe Down)
can use SPD or POS type
INIT value doesn't matter (it's always at 100% on boot)
(because the FM9 sets the Pedal to 100% on boot and doesn't respect Init value, POS type for Auto-Engage works for 95% Off, but not for 5% off)
FM3
Auto-Engage Off value is 5% (Heel Down)
if using SPD type, INIT value does not matter (this is something to do with how SPD type works)
if using POS type, INIT value MUST be 0% (FM3 respects INIT value on boot)
Auto-Engage Off value is 95% (Toe Down)
if using SPD type, INIT value does not matter (just how SPD works)
if using POS type, INIT value MUST be 100% (FM3 respects INIT value on boot)
--
this took 2 hours to post
i hope it's correct as my brain is mush now
ultimately i still think this is not a Bug, but just the different units not matching in how they behave. a Bug is something the Developer deems "not right", and we don't know how the developers intend for this to work.
it would be a feature request to have the FM9 (and possibly Axe3, i couldn't test) respect INIT value for Pedal jacks, just like the FM3 currently does.
