Violin or Horn Advice.

electronpirate

electronpirate

Axe-Master
After working hard on guitar (natch), and now reasonably competent on keys and bass...my ever ending quest to play moves to different instruments. I'm going to give a shot to a Violin or a horn instrument. Sax is the poison of choice on horn, but the violin is kind of something I've been thinking about for some time.

Anyone with advice of what is a good price for a starter on either instrument, AND what to look for, chime in.
 
So...
I wouldn't call sax a horn... it's a woodwind...

To me horn is a brass instrument...

Anyway....

Violin- do it if you want to- takes a lot of time and work to get good sound and tone and get the complete register of the instruments- no frets so it requires a lot of ear training... Something like a cello or bass might be "better" and more useful to incorporate in your own music

SO this statement will get me flack... but saxophone is a weird instrument...
It's not even a real orchestral instrument... it only exists in pop music and pop culture and jazz....
Real symphonies, real orchestras don't have saxes- they have strong french horn sections and bass clairnets that fill in the range of the saxes- and really they don't exist in most groups- when needed clainet players who can mostly play all of them will switch when needed if a piece requires it...anyway...

Woodwinds are DIFFICULT- the fingers are tough, and the embouchure isn't easy- it will take TONS of work to learn the fingers and TONS of work to get tone out of it- and years to get the full range of the instrument.

I can play- every string instrument, every brass instrument, every keyboard based instrument and percussion- and by percussion- bells maribas, vibes anything- BUT i can't play ANY woodwinds- it's really really really tough- so I used to be able to hit super C's on trumpet but can't play flute, clarinet, sax, oboe or bassoon (oboe and bassoon- double reeds- super hard- if you have kids and are reading this- force them to learn oboe or bassoon and their college will be free)

I'm not trying to shoot you down because you're suggesting an instrument I can't play- but it is difficult- Trumpet by far was harder than piano guitar or anything else in the world to me.

My advice on instruments- violin- cheap china ebay garbage for $50 max until you get serious

King and Selmer are great sax's and they make some in beginner range and you can find them cheap
vandoren reeds/mouthpieces are the best in the business

ultimately- violin or sax- isn't a read a guitar magazine tablature kind of deal
you need private lessons weekly- a college student or even high school student could get you started cheap and easy
it takes a lot of work

go to a piano you can play the highest note and lowest note- i cat can even do it
sax-trumpet- a lot different

Violin is a stringed instrument but things like double stops- two notes at a time- are easy on guitar- harder on vioin and harmonics to get the full register of the instrument- aren't easy- takes top professionals to do some of the notes

anyway
good luck- in high school i wanted to learn every instrument- and i put a dent in a bunch of them... i did learn flute a little which was freaking hard-

OH by the way- if you can play recorder- then sax is easy- they're not that differnet in fingerings

ALSO
sax/clarinet- super similar- all the woodwinds so you can hammer a lot out

LAST THING
soprano alto tenor bari sax- they're all different AND DIFFICULT to transpose and the bigger ones tenor/bari take A LOT of work and practice and a ton of power to play

but i wish you the best!!!

also trumpets are fun and cheap- and fun
 
Go with violin!

Well it's not quite the same, but when I was a kid, my sister let me play her clarinet. She was 1st chair, and I used to watch her practice every day, clean the spit out, and clean the mouthpiece. IMHO, it's a pretty gross instrument, haha. Just being pragmatic here. But maybe that's just a psychological thing for me.

Sorry I have no practical knowledge of violin to share.
 
Well..I used to play violin, my first instrument in fact, played for about ten years. My violin playing career ended with being kicked out of the school orchestra for going to see Status Quo rather than playing in the school operetta (HMS Pinafore if i recall correctly...as if could ever forget!)
Still got a few knocking around, pick it up and have a scratch every now and then.
When i started playing guitar (bass actually, mid-teens) it literally took me years to get comfortable with the strings on the bass being opposite to those on the violin (violin goes G D A E low to high)

Picked up sax a few years later (via the flute) played it for about 30 years now.

So..Sax...I'd suggest a Yamaha YTS-32 tenor, great horn for a starter/intermediate, well made, in tune etc etc. Probably around $1000 for a decent example. Match it with a Yamaha 4c mouthpiece, your bog standard cheap, well made starter mouthpiece, and you'll be good to go.

Of course, there's lots (and lots) of other options around, especially these days with the no-name brands coming from China/Taiwan/ebay. Some of these horns can be good, i actually have a cheap Chinese curved soprano that works fine, but it's a bit of a crap shoot.
"Jupiter" is another known brand (at least here in Australia) that's not too bad...thing about saxophones is there's a lot of mechanical bits and airtight seals and shims etc that need to be working properly and "in concert" to get a decent sound. A poorly functioning horn is a whole world of frustration...especially if you're not sure if it's you or the instrument itself.
A lot of beginners are discouraged by bad horns.
And once you get the hang of it all, you can start delving into the wonderful world of mouthpiece designs/options/opinions..
The "Sax on the Web" forum is a great resource, plenty of advice there...
Also check the book "The Art of Playing Saxophone" by Larry Teal, a great treatise on the whole business.
You'll also be diving into the whole world of breath control and embouchure...very different experience to playing guitar.

Violin...I have no idea what violins are worth these days, but as an acoustic instrument you're looking for the same kinda things as you would an acoustic guitar, decent build, nice tone, etc etc. I'll take a punt and say the cheap Chinese ones are probably a safer bet than the sax's, just because there are no real moving parts.

Intonation is the big deal here, left hand..where are those notes anyways? :)
The other big deal is bowing articulation, right hand, which takes quite some training to achieve.
The mastery of these two skill will torture your close family/neighbours/anyone within range for years to come!

Actually, intonation is a big deal on sax as well.
And constant practise to maintain your embouchure, as it deteriorates quite quickly and takes a few days to build up again.
Like all wind instruments, every note needs to be coaxed or "produced", pushing the buttons/keys is just the start of the process.
And then there's the altissimo...

Conceptually, it would be an interesting exercise to learn the sax as a completely new physical skill-set to master.

OR...get a cheap solid body electric violin, plug it in to your Axe FX (with emphasis on the "fx"), turn it up, and..GO!

Sounds fun either way to me!
 
Get an electric violin ... then, as you learn, you can make strangled seagull noises into headphones and be able to live harmoniously with your family, neighbours and critters both domestic and wild in the vicinity.
 
Don't let them scare you, sax is a bad ass instrument and as with anything takes practice. It depends on what style you want to play but i dig jazz, blues, rock, pop and easy to find interesting stuff to play along or improvise over. Hal Leonard publishes a bunch

Most start with alto or tenor, I'm biased toward tenor because it has a raw razor type in your face tone which I really like and what I started with. Bari has some of that tone too but starts getting too throaty for me. Moving up the chain alto always felt like a toy and saprano somewhat like a clarinet.

You will start out honky, squeeky, and airy like any woodwind/brass instrument, don't worry it passes. Do yourself a favor and start with lessons to get oriented and learn how to care for it.

Yamaha makes some good saxes as mentioned, had a vito that played well too and liked action on a little better. I'm swearing off more guitars (until next one have to have) have my sites set on a Selmer... oh yes, one day you will be mine!

Good luck!
 
If you want to transition to violin, you could pick up a cheap mandolin. Mandolin standard tuning is in 5ths like a violin (GDAE). The similarly short scale and matching tuning will make adjusting to the different scale and chord shapes easier. I briefly tried my hand at violin. The hardest and most frustrating part for me was the bow. Good bowing technique and tone takes quite a bit of practice and patience. Learning to fret and pluck a guitar string was so simple by comparison. Guitar is fun and easy to learn initially because you can sound decent fairly quickly albeit on simpler songs. With violin, you'll likely spend a fair bit of time at first just trying to get single notes to not sound like a sick or dying cat. The initial learning curve is quite a bit steeper. Something that I also didn't really consider was just how LOUD acoustic violins really are. That little body can compete with a full orchestra. Definitely get a practice mute for the bridge, but it's still fairly loud. I initially wanted to try cello, but half decent beginner cellos are quite a bit more expensive. Like all acoustic instruments, you definitely get what you pay for in terms of tone. My $80 eBay special now serves as a classy decoration. I can make it resonate on the wall with my Axe II and CLR cab, so in a way I'm still playing violin. :cool:
 
If you want to do something... do it right... get private lessons for 30min to an hour once a week- and practice daily.
 
mr_fender said:
Something that I also didn't really consider was just how LOUD acoustic violins really are. That little body can compete with a full orchestra.
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In my years of playing Trumpet in orchestras before college.... I can tell you- never ONCE did I hear any of the strings- ever.

If you do hear it- it's mic'd/close mic'd professionally and boosted up to compete- but on their own- one trumpet player could drown out an entire string ensemble.

Trumpet/Brass damaged my hearing more than rock bands

To me, strings/violins are super quiet- and in an orchestra setting- I never heard them.
 
I'm a multi-instrumentalist too.

I bought my violin used at a bluegrass festival. I gravitate toward more of a folk / celtic / cajun "fiddle" style and wasn't interested in orchestral playing.

I played a bunch of different instruments and picked out the one that I liked best. It was inexpensive but has a ton of vibe and character.
 
Lips and single reed are overdone. Go double reed Oboe baby!

Seriously. Oboe is a fascinating instrument. Unique tone, not loud, small, and double reed makes it most similar to human voice.
 
Jeries said:
In my years of playing Trumpet in orchestras before college.... I can tell you- never ONCE did I hear any of the strings- ever.

If you do hear it- it's mic'd/close mic'd professionally and boosted up to compete- but on their own- one trumpet player could drown out an entire string ensemble.

Trumpet/Brass damaged my hearing more than rock bands

To me, strings/violins are super quiet- and in an orchestra setting- I never heard them.
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True. 1 to 1, brass is a whole other level of loud. In a concerto context though, a violin holds it own surprisingly well. In a way, the loudness of horns is what spurred the creation of the electric guitar. Once amplified, the guitar could finally compete in a big band situation and the guitar started to replace the sax as a lead instrument in the 50's. Guys like Chet Atkins, Chuck Berry, and Les Paul came along and really brought the electric guitar into the spotlight. We wouldn't be here without the crazy loudness of horns.
 
Trumpet is a Bb instrument. A little confusing at first, but you can settle in. You'll probably transition to violin easier than brass.
 
Geezerjohn said:
Trumpet is a Bb instrument. A little confusing at first, but you can settle in. You'll probably transition to violin easier than brass.
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Trumpet= Bb easy
(Tenor Sax is Bb Too)

BUT all the other saxes- is crazy difficult to transpose

I think I mentioned it above- it's really hard to transpose Eb saxes

Baritone and Bass sax- even though they're super super low- are written in treble cleff- it's weird

Trumpet is like a guitar down a step
 
I found trumpet, french horn and tuba to be easy.

You can always play melodies as written to learn. You wouldn't be able to "play along" if the keys are different but you can still learn to play song melodies that way.

The C clef is the one that baffles me. I was in a mandolin orchestra for a long time and the mandola charts were all in C clef. I played the mandocello, it wasn't bad to read those charts but I was helping a good friend with the mandola stuff. Never did get comfortable reading that clef.
 
I used to record and perform with a keyboard player (Wade Muncy) who was the bomb on trumpet too. When performing live, he could play keys and trumpet at the same time. Keyboards with one hand and play brass lines at the same time. He could also read full orchestral sheet music, all lines simultaneously. Needless to say, he was a pretty amazing musician. We played together for a few years in a band named CrossStreet (Wingate Records).
 
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