Video - FC-12 - Quick Look | Default Layouts | EZ Switch Editing

Chris,I also wish you had more time for the videos,You do a good job, and appreciate your advice and knowledge and assistance
 
I did not see it in your video but have you seen a way to toggle presets so the mini displays show the current preset name of the toggle rather than the choice of 'Destination Name" when toggling within a particular bank?
 
I did not see it in your video but have you seen a way to toggle presets so the mini displays show the current preset name of the toggle rather than the choice of 'Destination Name" when toggling within a particular bank?
Just curious why? It's already on the main display ;)

As Chris mentions in the video, think of those switches as "where are you going".

If you check the manual (where all the questions are answered ;)), you'll see that the only choices for preset toggle display that shows the current preset info are these:

Both # – For the toggle function, shows both preset numbers, with brackets around the one that is currently selected. Ex: [P000]P001 or P000[P001]or without brackets if neither is loaded: P000/P001

Both P# – For the toggle function, shows the positions of both presets within the bank, with brackets around the one that is currently selected (ex: [P1] P2, or without brackets if neither is loaded: P1/P2
 
I did not see it in your video but have you seen a way to toggle presets so the mini displays show the current preset name of the toggle rather than the choice of 'Destination Name" when toggling within a particular bank?
The Main display shows your current preset.

Can you explain how seeing your current preset on the switch display helps in a toggle situation?
 
Well here's the deal. I am setting up my pedal for the fastest way to get to where I want to go without getting confused. My set up is having the bottom five buttons as scenes with buttons 3-5 toggling to scenes 5-8. Button 6, toggles between Bank 0 and 1.

Top row first five buttons are Presets 1- 5. I want 10 presets per bank, so without having to call up a different layout in the middle of a song and punching more buttons than necessary, I then am toggling Preset buttons 1-5 to a choice of Presets 6-10 on a toggle per preset. It works great except that I can not see the preset names laid out on my mini displays of the preset buttons that I want to see in any bank at any given time. For example I may want to see presets 1,2,6,7,5 displayed in front of me in a given bank for a particular song line up. The Master Display definitely tells me where I am at but then I want my Mini Displays will tell me what presets are surrounding my current preset in that bank so I can go to my choice of one with one click and not have to guess what it is. Finally button 12 toggles between Banks 2 and 3. With buttons 6 and 12 able to toggle to any 4 Banks of my choice of 10 presets each I have more than enough presets available with only one or two stomps to get where I need to be. Also when I toggle banks, the Names of the first five presets in whatever bank I toggle to show up instantly. The only missing link is when toggling the Presets 1-5 buttons, to any of the Presets 6 - 10, I can not see the name of the new preset, only the destination of where it would go to which is the preset I just left. Not what I want, too confusing when I only have a fraction of a second to change to where I am going in a live gig situation. What I have to do is leave the preset toggle display in the [P# ] format so at least I can see if I am on preset 1 or 6 for example, [P1] / P6.

I would think it would be an easy addition to the software menu of the AXE FX3's, FC/ Preset/ Toggle in Bank / Mini Display Label, choices to include, Current Name, then Destination Name, Both P#, Both #, Destination #, or Custom. Hope this can be accomplished in the near future.

While I am on my "soap box" it would be nice to be able to toggle a button to see the BANK # info (000-009), for example, that you can see on the main display screen for only a fraction of a second when you change banks...
 
I may want to see presets 1,2,6,7,5 displayed in front of me
i don't understand. assuming your top row shows Presets

1 2 3 4 5

then the Toggle on each switch would be

6 7 8 9 10

how could you display presets 1 and 6 at the same time? 1 and 6 are on the same switch, how could you possibly show both? it sounds like you don't have a consistent "toggle" setup? can you describe exactly what you're setting up?


The only missing link is when toggling the Presets 1-5 buttons, to any of the Presets 6 - 10, I can not see the name of the new preset, only the destination of where it would go to which is the preset I just left.
i don't understand. what exactly do you mean by "toggling the Presets 1-5 buttons"? do you mean you press the button a 2nd time to get to the 2nd Preset on that switch?

again, why do you need to see the name of the new Preset if you're currently on it?
 
Hi Chris, my mistake on the example I gave above.
The example above should have read, "I may want to see Presets 1,2,8,9,5, displayed in front of me in a given bank for a particular song line up".
The bottom line is that I may want to be able to see any of the 10 presets in a bank lined up in advance for a tune that I am getting ready to play. Or I may just switch banks and just want to see how the presets are positioned in another bank. For years I played with a Roland FC-100 and a Roland GP-8 and GP-16. They had direct access to a couple hundred presets and I had gotten used to visualizing the 8 or 9 banks in my mind with 8 presets across and either an A or B preset toggled selection on each preset button. This type of set up on the FC-12 would be more to what I was used to. Again what I want to get away from is the pedal board dance. I used to have to change each songs pedals, or before I had a foot controller, the effects pedals themselves, extremely fast since we used to play one song after another with no time in between. I had every combination memorized and I could stomp the different pedal combinations so fast everyone thought I was up on stage just doing some fancy choreography, lol.

So this FC-12 was to be the most versatile set up in today's foot controller world. I was just really disappointed to see every other combination available is in the unit except what I was looking for in the preset display. I'll get by once I memorize the preset numbers. However if you are giving the Fractal guys any upgrade suggestions on the FC's, I sure would appreciate you submitting this request for me to add the current name of the preset as one of the choices in the Preset /Toggle in Bank/ Mini Display Label programming menu.

Thanks, and by the way I love all of your videos. They are all very explanatory...
 
Hi Chris, my mistake on the example I gave above.
The example above should have read, "I may want to see Presets 1,2,8,9,5, displayed in front of me in a given bank for a particular song line up".
The bottom line is that I may want to be able to see any of the 10 presets in a bank lined up in advance for a tune that I am getting ready to play.
It sounds like this changes throughout the night. How could the FC possibly know what you want to see? Even if it did display the current preset, how does that one switch affect the other preset switches?

It sounds like you don’t want it to display the current preset. It sounds like you want it to display the LAST selected preset on the switch. Is that more accurate?

Yet again, how would it suddenly display what you want to see at any given moment? You’d have to manually change it somehow right?

Again what I want to get away from is the pedal board dance.

Everyone wants to get away from this. And you can do that now. Maybe duplicate presets to higher banks in a different order that you want (on the Axe)? Or if you aren’t using all Layouts, use multiple layouts that are similar with small changes for displaying different presets. Or maybe use Per-Preset switches that change what is where with each preset change.

Many ways to do this.

Again, it seems like you are describing “show last used toggle” rather than “current preset.”

This was discussed here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/wish-for-toggle-mode.146775/

I still think it would be very confusing and force reading - which is the opposite of what you seem to want. For any toggle switch I know exactly what happens if I press it once or twice. No guessing. I don’t have to read the name of the Scene or Preset to make sure I know what I’m getting.

Am I describing what you want?

From experience, I honestly think this is a feature where if granted, people would quickly say “ohhhh it sounded good in my head but actually using it, it’s very confusing. Now I don’t use it anymore.”
 
Well Chris I just wrote out a detailed reponse to you on my issue but this darn post timed out on me and I lost it all. So I will try to make this one brief...
I have decided to reduce my bank size to 5 presets instead of 10 and increase # of Banks to 8 instead of 4. This way I can remove all toggles and still be able to see the NAMES of the presets I want to go to. I put a WRAP feature on the Bank +/- select buttons so it will still be a minimal amount of button pushing to get to any of my most popular presets.

Just a side note to all, the toggle set up I had worked well for me except for the current name not being listed, because the preset buttons would only toggle the preset if you were all ready on that particular button. As an example, if I was on P1 (toggled to P6), and wanted to go to say P4, all I had to do was hit the button of P4 to get there. It would not toggle that preset unless I was already on the preset and hit it a second time. Plus I liked having a larger bank size.

So once again if you are speaking with Fractal guys about any upgrade suggestions on the FC's, I sure would appreciate you submitting this request for me to add the current name of the preset as one of the choices in the Preset /Toggle in Bank/ Mini Display Label programming menu.
Again my other wish is it would be nice to be able to program a button using the hold feature or a toggle to see the BANK # info (000-009), for example, that you can see on the main display screen for only a fraction of a second when you change banks... I would like the ability to keep that info on the screen if so desired...

Thanks for your time and consideration...
 
Well Chris I just wrote out a detailed reponse to you on my issue but this darn post timed out on me and I lost it all. So I will try to make this one brief...
I have decided to reduce my bank size to 5 presets instead of 10 and increase # of Banks to 8 instead of 4. This way I can remove all toggles and still be able to see the NAMES of the presets I want to go to. I put a WRAP feature on the Bank +/- select buttons so it will still be a minimal amount of button pushing to get to any of my most popular presets.

Just a side note to all, the toggle set up I had worked well for me except for the current name not being listed, because the preset buttons would only toggle the preset if you were all ready on that particular button. As an example, if I was on P1 (toggled to P6), and wanted to go to say P4, all I had to do was hit the button of P4 to get there. It would not toggle that preset unless I was already on the preset and hit it a second time. Plus I liked having a larger bank size.

So once again if you are speaking with Fractal guys about any upgrade suggestions on the FC's, I sure would appreciate you submitting this request for me to add the current name of the preset as one of the choices in the Preset /Toggle in Bank/ Mini Display Label programming menu.
Again my other wish is it would be nice to be able to program a button using the hold feature or a toggle to see the BANK # info (000-009), for example, that you can see on the main display screen for only a fraction of a second when you change banks... I would like the ability to keep that info on the screen if so desired...

Thanks for your time and consideration...
I still don’t think you’re describing “current preset” accurately. Having to press a Switch twice has nothing to do with “current preset” conceptually. “Current” means the Preset you’re on now. If you’re on preset 6, “display the current Preset” would mean showing Preset 6, not Preset 4.

That’s why this is confusing.
 
As an example, if I was on P1 (toggled to P6), and wanted to go to say P4, all I had to do was hit the button of P4 to get there. It would not toggle that preset unless I was already on the preset and hit it a second time.
I have to say I've struggled to follow along with your use case. It doesn't make sense to my brain, which is why I haven't tried to propose any alternative.

Your example above doesn't make sense to me.

If you are on P1, you are on P1... Not P6. If you've toggled to P6, then you're on P6. How does that relate to P4? If you have a button assigned to P4 (or more precisely in your case, a toggle between 4 and 9, I think) then of course it's going to go to P4 when you press it. That is how the toggles work.

As I'm writing this out, it kind of feels like you are wanting the bank to toggle as you toggle presets? In other words, something like this;

Buttons 1-5 assigned to presets in 1-5 in the bank and each preset toggling up 5 presets.

So, initially, say you start on preset on the 1st bank of 10, the buttons will access presets:

1 2 3 4 5

And each would toggle to:

6 7 8 9 10

It sounds like what you want is this:

Initial press button 1, you get to preset 1, button labels now look like this:

1 2 3 4 5

Press button 1 again, you get to preset 6, button labels now look like this:

6 7 8 9 10

Press button 1 again, you get to preset 1, and button labels to back to:

1 2 3 4 5

Is this a correct understanding?
 
Chris, I know that, but I was talking about two different things in the previous set up. I was referring to Current Name of a preset and was explaining that the set up I had explained worked well for me except that it was displayed in numbers, [P1] / P6, [P2] / P7, etc., as the toggled presets were displayed, not in names. In my example above I was sharing just a note on my toggle set up. I was just trying to point out that I could go from any preset in the 10 preset bank from a toggled preset like P6 to a non toggled preset like P4 in the without having to toggle the destination button. Some folks were under the impression that every time I hit a preset button that it would toggle and I may not want that, and that is not so unless you tapped it twice.

I apologize that I have not been clear on what I wanted.
 
I have to say I've struggled to follow along with your use case. It doesn't make sense to my brain, which is why I haven't tried to propose any alternative.

Your example above doesn't make sense to me.

If you are on P1, you are on P1... Not P6. If you've toggled to P6, then you're on P6. How does that relate to P4? If you have a button assigned to P4 (or more precisely in your case, a toggle between 4 and 9, I think) then of course it's going to go to P4 when you press it. That is how the toggles work.

As I'm writing this out, it kind of feels like you are wanting the bank to toggle as you toggle presets? In other words, something like this;

Buttons 1-5 assigned to presets in 1-5 in the bank and each preset toggling up 5 presets.

So, initially, say you start on preset on the 1st bank of 10, the buttons will access presets:

1 2 3 4 5

And each would toggle to:

6 7 8 9 10

It sounds like what you want is this:

Initial press button 1, you get to preset 1, button labels now look like this:

1 2 3 4 5

Press button 1 again, you get to preset 6, button labels now look like this:

6 7 8 9 10

Press button 1 again, you get to preset 1, and button labels to back to:

1 2 3 4 5

Is this a correct understanding?

Yes, you are correct this is how I have it set up.. I just don't want to see numbers when I stomp the preset button, I want to see names.
If P1 toggles to P6, and P1 is SRV Blues, and P6 is Allman Brothers, then that is what I want the Mini Display to read when a particular preset is active.
 
Chris, I know that, but I was talking about two different things in the previous set up. I was referring to Current Name of a preset and was explaining that the set up I had explained worked well for me except that it was displayed in numbers, [P1] / P6, [P2] / P7, etc., as the toggled presets were displayed, not in names. In my example above I was sharing just a note on my toggle set up. I was just trying to point out that I could go from any preset in the 10 preset bank from a toggled preset like P6 to a non toggled preset like P4 in the without having to toggle the destination button. Some folks were under the impression that every time I hit a preset button that it would toggle and I may not want that, and that is not so unless you tapped it twice.

I apologize that I have not been clear on what I wanted.
Ok...

So what you want is the preset toggle function to display something like:

[Name 1] / Name 2

With a 10 character limit on the display, I don't think that would work. Given you use 3 of those characters for [, ] and /, that leaves 7 characters to display the name of 2 presets. :(

Edit: your post right before this wasn't visible when I replied
 
Yes, you are correct this is how I have it set up.. I just don't want to see numbers when I stomp the preset button, I want to see names.
If P1 toggles to P6, and P1 is SRV Blues, and P6 is Allman Brothers, then that is what I want the Mini Display to read when a particular preset is active.
you want the mini display to show

SRV Blues / Allman Brothers

?
 
No, I want the Mini Display to show one of those names, (as an example), when I toggle the preset button, instead of P1 or P6 (as an example). No matter whether I toggle or don't toggle, I want the resulting preset to display that preset's name in the Mini Display just as it will show in the Main Display. In that example P1 would be SRV Blues, and P6 would be Allman Brothers. The Mini Displays are not big enough to display both of those names on the screen at the same time like the "Both P#" option in the menu does which shows two Preset Numbers at the same time. Just the name of the currently active one is all I was looking for.
 
No, I want the Mini Display to show one of those names, (as an example), when I toggle the preset button, instead of P1 or P6 (as an example). No matter whether I toggle or don't toggle, I want the resulting preset to display that preset's name in the Mini Display just as it will show in the Main Display. In that example P1 would be SRV Blues, and P6 would be Allman Brothers. The Mini Displays are not big enough to display both of those names on the screen at the same time like the "Both P#" option in the menu does which shows two Preset Numbers at the same time. Just the name of the currently active one is all I was looking for.
That is understandable. But how does that affect Preset 4 when you’re on Preset 1 (or what eleven the previous example was)? Or was that a different thing?

So if you’re on SRV, you want the switch to show SRV? Ok. I personally don’t see the benefit at all. It makes the text on that switch sort of redundant and useless. It’s not showing any new information. But that’s just preference.

Let’s say you go to Allman Bros. And you want the switch to show Allman bros.

That’s all on the same switch. What do you want to see when you are on a Allman Bros, and then press another switch to preset 8 for example? What do you want that Allman Bros switch to show after you leave that preset?
 
Yes, you are correct this is how I have it set up.. I just don't want to see numbers when I stomp the preset button, I want to see names.
If P1 toggles to P6, and P1 is SRV Blues, and P6 is Allman Brothers, then that is what I want the Mini Display to read when a particular preset is active.

This seems like a bad idea? If the switch shows Allman Bros when you are on that preset (just as the main display does), how will you know what preset it will switch to when you step on it?

Say you're on P6 and the mini display reads Allman Brothers. Now you hit a pedal to load P2. This mini-display now shows the P2 name. What should the other display show. Should it show Allman Brothers? If it did this would not make sense as the SRV Blues preset it what will be loaded when you step on it, not Allman Brothers. So then that means it should show the current present when active, but the preset that will actually be loaded when not active, which seems like unnecessarily complex behavior for no real advantage to me?
 
That is understandable. But how does that affect Preset 4 when you’re on Preset 1 (or what eleven the previous example was)? Or was that a different thing?

So if you’re on SRV, you want the switch to show SRV? Ok. I personally don’t see the benefit at all. It makes the text on that switch sort of redundant and useless. It’s not showing any new information. But that’s just preference.

Let’s say you go to Allman Bros. And you want the switch to show Allman bros.

That’s all on the same switch. What do you want to see when you are on a Allman Bros, and then press another switch to preset 8 for example? What do you want that Allman Bros switch to show after you leave that preset?

If I hit another switch like preset 8 I would expect the Mini Display for that button to show the name of the preset for Preset 8. The Allman Brothers switch will still say Allman Brothers unless I toggle it. There is a lot of information there. I can virtually see 5 presets on the controller at one time and select any that I want. If I toggle any particular switch it will show me the preset I have selected for that toggle in presets 6-10. All the other switches will show the preset names where I left them and if I select any of them it will be that sound. If I hit the switch again it will toggle up to the sound that I programmed for 5 presets above the one I originally hit. I prefer to see all of the neighboring presets in a bank even when they are not selected.

Not only am I able to view the other presets' names next to any switch that I select at the same time, but every time I increment the Bank button the five physical switches for presets that I have in the top row instantly change to the first 5 presets in the new bank, as well as the 5 additional presets in their toggle positions if I choose. Ideally I would like to see all 10 presets in a Bank at the same time plus my Scenes in the bottom row if I could. However that would require an FC-18 which I don't think is on the drawing board yet.
 
This seems like a bad idea? If the switch shows Allman Bros when you are on that preset (just as the main display does), how will you know what preset it will switch to when you step on it?

Say you're on P6 and the mini display reads Allman Brothers. Now you hit a pedal to load P2. This mini-display now shows the P2 name. What should the other display show. Should it show Allman Brothers? If it did this would not make sense as the SRV Blues preset it what will be loaded when you step on it, not Allman Brothers. So then that means it should show the current present when active, but the preset that will actually be loaded when not active, which seems like unnecessarily complex behavior for no real advantage to me?

Hello atquinn, as I have tried to explain to others on this thread, per your example, if I select P6, Allman Brothers and I the move over to the left and hit P2, Blues Fusion, P2's mini display will say Blues Fusion and the active ring for that preset will light up. P6's display will still say Allman Brothers , but the active ring is dim. If I then go back to Allman Brothers and select it, it will still be Allman Brothers, only it is active now. It will not toggle back to SRV when I select it unless I tap the switch one more time. I think that is the point I was trying to make where a lot of guys on this thread were getting confused. As far as "how will I know what preset the toggle will go to when I step on it", is not that hard for me to remember since I programmed the presets and put them in logical places that may relate to each of the presets toggled or may be presets for songs I am playing in the same set as the bank I am in. As I mentioned above in another email, used to use a Roland FC-100 and there were a couple hundred presets in the unit but no mini displays to read. I got around well on that unit for years just because I not only memorized the names of the numbered presets in my head but also placed them in a logical order to keep similar presets for a particular song close together.

So the bottom line for my threads regarding the FC-12 is that my preferences may not work for everybody but I know what I want and have good reasons for it. Just hope the software programmers will take my suggestion and add the current name of the preset as one of the choices in the Preset /Toggle in Bank/ Mini Display Label programming menu.
 
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