Very stupid question reg. Fletcher Munson effect

cbellanga

Inspired
ok I know it's a stupid question but would love to hear from the veterans anyway :)

I understand that the FM effect is less apparent on valve amps as while increasing the volume the power amp compress and ease down the high / low frequencies (that's what I read elsewhere but also my experience).

So wouldn't be the same effect if instead of tweaking the level knob on the ax8 we could use the master volume in the modelling just like a real amp? So theorically we could replicate the same compression not only on the overall tonality but also in relation to frequency dynamics?

Long shot but would be curious if anyone had similar thoughts before? :)
 
The Master Volume control does affect dynamics (significantly depending on the amp model). But it won't resolve the equal loudness contours our ears hear at varying SPLs.

To test your theory, turn the AX8 output way up, turn your physical speakers way up (near loud gig level), but leave Master Volume at a tame level. Now increase Master Volume and listen to the difference between loud and ear splitting. This is exactly what you'd be doing on a physical amp.
 
The Master Volume control does affect dynamics (significantly depending on the amp model). But it won't resolve the equal loudness contours our ears hear at varying SPLs.

To test your theory, turn the AX8 output way up, turn your physical speakers way up (near loud gig level), but leave Master Volume at a tame level. Now increase Master Volume and listen to the difference between loud and ear splitting. This is exactly what you'd be doing on a physical amp.

Good suggestion, will give it a try! I'm just trying to understand how different these dynamics are from real amps. The effect is not that noticeable on a valve amp so was wondering if there's a way of modelling it.
 
You're comparing apples and oranges.

Here's my take on this.....

The traditional guitar cab will have a far more limited frequency range to begin with when compared to a FRFR system. So it is less affected by changes in volume.

However, the sound of that same cab all mic'd up, playing through a FOH system will exhibit the "FM" issues. The FOH engineer will apply low and high cuts accordingly (hopefully) to compensate. You are just unaware of this from your vantage point on stage.

When using a FRFR system, you have to treat it like a mic'd cab. There is just no way around it. Other than using a traditional guitar cab and sticking a mic in front of it when needed.
 
You're comparing apples and oranges.

Here's my take on this.....

The traditional guitar cab will have a far more limited frequency range to begin with when compared to a FRFR system. So it is less affected by changes in volume.

However, the sound of that same cab all mic'd up, playing through a FOH system will exhibit the "FM" issues. The FOH engineer will apply low and high cuts accordingly (hopefully) to compensate. You are just unaware of this from your vantage point on stage.

When using a FRFR system, you have to treat it like a mic'd cab. There is just no way around it. Other than using a traditional guitar cab and sticking a mic in front of it when needed.

Yes, this!

I have Atomic CRF and Matrix Q12a that I use with our band. These are certainly impacted by the FM effect.

Because I absolutly prefer the intricate detail of a true guitar speaker to practice with, I stuck a 65 watt Scumback in one of my Q12a cabinets. It sounds great and much larger than it is. Plus, it is so easy to carry around. The first thing that I noticed was that I could crank the volume much higher than the FRFR speaker in the same cab without it becoming harsh and boomy. The natural frequency cuts that the guitar speak has just felt easier to play loud. The new IRs are great - especially the new Celestions. But I will always prefer a good quality guitar speaker over a FRFR systems.
 
Fletche-pr-Munson affects every sound that enters your ears, whether it's from a tube amp or anything else. People just accept the fact that a traditional amp won't sound its best at low volume.
 
With the AX8, we have the luxury of using the Master Volume control as a tone-shaping tool instead of a volume control. That's an advantage because the Master Volume "sweet spot" on a real amp is often just too damn loud. With the AX8, we can find the sweet spot, and then adjust the volume where we want it.
 
Thanks guys, great responses and that definitely helps! I've actually been lucky to sort my main present at rehearsal volume with my band (it's a very simple patch) and looking forward trying it on this Friday' gig :)
 
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