Very hard time trying to decide between Axe Fx 2 and Ax8.

[rich2k4]

I posted last week about trying to decide between a Line 6 Helix and Ax8. After some thinking I realized that what I really want is a Fractal device, with all the amps it offers, etc. I am trying to build a home studio/practice area that will allow me to easily recording at a moments notice, play along to backing tracks, and to be able to practice late night at very low volumes while still achieving a great tone.

Playing out for me is very rare. Occasionally I will jam with a friend, but I no longer play in a band, and don't expect to be in one any time soon. (although who knows). So with that said I am 95% of the time a home player.

I currently have a hot rod deville, roland cube 30x, and a Fender Gdec. Both the cube and Gdec allow me to practice at low volumes, but the tone isn't very inspiring. The deville needs to be cranked up to get good tone but I can't do that anymore with my living situation. Using pedals at low volume doesn't sound good to me. The Gdec has USB recording capability, but it sounds like crap. I tried to use the usb interface capability to run Amplitube and TH2 but didn't like the tone of either.

This leads me to going with a dedicated processor. This is a large purchase for me, and it has been something I have been thinking about doing for a couple of years actually. I could possibly spend a lot less money to solve my problems outlined above, but I want to do this right. I have carved out a budget of a little over $3k to do this.

A few months ago, it would have been an easy decision because there was only 1 choice. The Axe Fx 2. Now with the addition of the Ax8 it is harder. I am aware of the differences between the two, and I am aware that the Ax8 was designed to be a unit for performing musicians. The problem for me is that since I am brand new to Fractal products, I cannot really determine how extensively I will use the different features. I know that the Ax8 has a less powerful CPU which doesn't allow as much flexibility as the Axe Fx, but I am not sure if that will be enough for me, or if I will want more.

The Ax8 is $1000 cheaper. I would be able to get an Ax8, studio monitors, and an audio interface with SPDIF input, all for the same price as a brand new XL+, with money to spare.

With the XL+ I will still need to buy studio monitors, and a rack case to hold it. This will come out to be around $700-800 more than the Ax8 option.

I actually have another option because a local guitar store near me has an older Axe Fx 2 in stock that they briefly used for their store studio to record product demos. This unit has been sitting untouched locked in a rack case in their studio for the last year, and they told me they would sell it to me for $1800. I am weary of buying devices like this used, because who knows how they took care of it, and it would have no warranty. This option would put me slightly above a brand new XL+ if you factor in the studio monitors.

The Ax8 would be the cheapest option, on paper give me what I am looking for, and I would still have money left over. It would also be portable for the times when I do jam with friends, and it would be gig ready if I ever do play in a band. What I am worried about is if the limitations of the Ax8 would end up annoying me. I don't play with really complex tones, but the tones that I do like include Eric Johnson's clean and lead tones, Van Halen's tone from the first 2 records, George Lynch, Andy Timmons, SRV, and cool funk clean tones such as "One Thing Leads To Another" by The Fixx.

Some of those require heavy reverb and delay, plus a sprinkling of other effects. I have dug around in the Ax8 section of this form and I have seen people complain about hitting max CPU just trying to set up a standard Amp, Cab, Boost, Delay, and Reverb chain. People tell them to lower reverb settings or use spring reverb. Well for things like Van Halen or Lynch, spring reverb doesn't cut it.

The thing is that if I am spending a lot of money like this, I don't want to have to compromise on anything tone wise. I guess the problem is that I don't know if I will have to, based on my needs. The only way I can know is if I either sit down with an Ax8, or someone reassures me that I can get those tones with CPU to spare, and maybe even proves it to me by posting pics/clips.

One thing that appeals to me with either unit is that I can virtually recreate any rig I want. It would be colt watch those Rig Rundowns on Youtube knowing that I can go into Axe Edit and recreate the rig using the same amp model, and try to recreate the tone. Although I think the Axe Fx is more flexible in that sense than the Ax8 is.

In the end I really don't know which way to go, which is why I want to hear opinions from others. Preferably those that own both.

Even with a $3k budget, there is a part of me that feels guilty somehow going the Axe Fx direction because even though it doesn't hurt me financially, it seems like it is overkill for someone who just noodles around at home. Although I do understand the importance of having inspiring tone that makes you want to play/practice.

Ax8 seems like a better bang for the buck, but I am afraid that ultimately it will block me with its limitations.

This is a very long post, but I really want to make sure I do this purchase right.

 

[hole]

I was in the same situation. I was about to pull the trigger on the Ax8, but kept getting doubts about the (possible) limitations compared to the AxeFX. I ended up getting an Axe FX (mk 1) and an MFC. Would do the same again.

 

[chris]

but I am afraid that ultimately it will block me with its limitations.

thinking of it this way, then the Axe-Fx II will have limitations for you as well.

any digital product has CPU limitations. there are people who always run gear to its limits and then wish for "just one more." and it's easy to view the AX8 as inferior when you can compare it to a similar product, the Axe-Fx II. but these are mostly psychological situations.

some people fool their own ears and minds when something like Echo Density is set to 6 rather than 8. i've been told that ED6 sounds like an "8-bit nintendo game effect" when compared to 8. that is really just not the case at all. or maybe they have the most amazing hearing in the world - which of course is possible. but don't fall into the trap of "this isn't the max, highest setting? then it MUST sound bad."

on the AX8, i never use Spring Reverb - i usually to the Normal ED2 and can run presets that look like this:



so the "amp cab boost delay and reverb" not working is a bit of a stretch. also, "heavy reverb" doesn't mean "highest studio audiophile quality resolution." it might just mean a high mix, which doesn't use anymore CPU compared to a low mix. people come into my live streams or watch my videos and ask how my Reverb is at highest settings yet i fit all the other blocks. they are always surprised when i say it's Normal ED2 - they're like "oh i thought that was supposed to sound horrible!" here's a video of this stuff in action:



if you want the least "compromise," then get the Axe-Fx II. end of discussion really.

generally speaking, most people who aren't satisfied with Normal resolution and Echo Density set to 2 in the Reverb block also tend to have the luxury of time and no gigs or performances. they have the time to get very particular about every aspect, every advanced parameter, etc. so their goal is the best sound possible and they have the option of "never being satisfied," to put it a bit bluntly. the people who gig regularly typically recognize and accept that Normal and ED2 sound stellar and comparable or better than other products; the goal here is to play music and perform, we can't twist knobs all day and really... don't need to. those who need the most quality for recording typically create the smallest presets possible to get the most quality for the take.

so there are different ways to use the devices. i say you should get an Axe-Fx II. you may hit its limits as well, but we all need to learn what the gear is capable of and where that "gets" us compared to what we hear in our heads.

 

[paranoid]

If you want a super studio machine go with the XL +. you can save on the rack, just put it on your desk. for studio us the Xl + will shine as an interface, reamper, effect plugin. I have an Ultra, axe fx II mkII, an XL, and an AX-8. if I could only have one it would be the XL, hands down. I am not bashing the AX-8, I like it for portability, but it as got some limitations.

 

[Lionheart]

After reading that super long post, I think that the clear choice should be the rack mount Axe-Fx II. Way more advantages if you'll be primarily using at your house.

 

[rickboot]

I have an AF2 and AX8. If you aren't gigging and money is no object I recommend the AF2.

I have both. When I tweaked my patches from AF2 to AX8 I had to compromise on some presets by stripping out dual amps, drive blocks, reverb, and I had to tweak quality levels downward. The hardware controls on the AF2 are more intuitive and efficient, and software editing is faster and more responsive. Plus AF2 usually gets firmware updates first.

 

[smfelton]

I would go for the 'pre-loved' Axe FX 2 the support from fractal is second to none so I wouldn't have any issues getting a second hand one from a shop.

 

[chris]

I would go for the 'pre-loved' Axe FX 2 the support from fractal is second to none so I wouldn't have any issues getting a second hand one from a shop.

still wouldn't be under warranty, regardless of support there could be cost associated with repairs if needed. if the money isn't an issue, i would definitely recommend buying new.

 

[Rick]

Forget that you play at home, that really shouldn't matter. Music is music wherever you play it, it doesn't have less value because you're the only one listening. You have the budget for an XL+, MFC, and some speakers. You're done.

 

[dandufour]

Not a professional here by any means. I do own the Axe FX2 and an MCF pedal. The band I play with
practices in a warehouse on the second floor. I am 61 years old and climbing those stairs along with the
long walk to our room, carrying 1 guitar, the Axe FX and the MFC really wears me out. I started leaving
my guitar and the MFC at practice and just taking the Axe FX home so I didn't have so much to carry.
Really didn't like doing that, so I was really considering buying the AX8, but what I don't like is I can't use 2 amps
at once, doesn't come with an expression pedal, concerned about running out of CPU. Some how I have a feeling
that there will be an upgrade soon and I would rather wait and see as long as I still have the AxeFX to use. I wanted to
purchase the AX8 only for the convenience of something lighter to carry and 1 less piece of equipment. By the way,
the warranty is excellent. Just sent my MFC back for a problem, it was fixed and sent back to me the same day
Fractal received it. You can't beat that kind of service!

 

[APOGEE123]

I was in the same boat, I bought the AX8 which sounded stellar but I already had an XL and some of the short comings in the AX8 just didn't work for me,.
I utilize the mic Preamp emulation in the Axe FX which is outstanding and the room emulation. I just couldn't do without that /couple other things
also, I hope at some point they come out with the AX8 plus with all the bells and whistles...

 

[jesussaddle]

To me this is strictly about whether you're a tweaker. If you hone into your presets in a more basic way, without wishing to spend the night camped out in front of the LCD, the AX8 is a great choice. I have a separate bedroom set up for me Axe FX II, so I can give it the quality time it deserves, lol.

Just kidding. I do think if you are more about playing and less about finding a very deep variety of tones, the AXE 8 is a joy and a deal. I got the II because I was so inspired with the "feel" improvements already in the box, that I wanted to be sure Cliff had all the processing power he needed in my unit, so when the updates happen I can ride the wave. I know whatever inspiration or need arises, there will be a good shot at it.

If I were a broke, touring player, I would have probably chosen differently.

 

[Jason Scott]

I do think if you are more about playing and less about finding a very deep variety of tones, the AXE 8 is a joy and a deal.

How is the AX8 more plug and play than the Axe FX II? Other than lacking dual amps / cabs, Tone Matching, and having fewer effects, isn't the AX8 every bit as deep and tweakable as the Axe FX II?

 

[lqdsnddist]

I find the Axe II a much "cleaner" setup for home/gigs because my whole rig is self-contained in my 4 space SKB rack with power conditioner, racked wireless unit, patch bay for all my ports and power outputs for monitors. The only 2 cords are one going to the MFC, and then one to power the mains. I find its far neater to have just one cable on stage going to the MFC, opposed to having the AX8 in front of me, which then requires cables going to the house, monitors etc, as well as power cord, and then additional power strip and cables for a floor mounted wireless (should one use one). In a nutshell, the racked AxeII is side/back of stage, out of the way, while the AX8 by default has to have everything all running to whereever on stage you want your controller.

Same issue in the home studio. In my music room, where my unit spends 99% of its time these days, I have the rack case sitting on a shelf with all the cables out of the way. Only thing I've got on the floor is again, one ethercon cable connected to my MFC, so its very tidy. AX8 while again, not bad in the least, requires sitting down on the floor, with all the cables for usb, power, audio etc running to it as well, so if you want to pull it out from the wall you then need to keep all those cables straight. I used to have a massive amount of stomp boxes on the floor, and tons of cable running everywhere, pre-axe days, so its certainly fine and good, but I will admit I like how basically all the cords are no longer visible.

If I had some stomp boxes I still wanted to use, then I'd probably build a AX8 rig, but as I'm 100% Axe these days, just having a totally self contained 4u rack is honestly just as easy to carry around, and makes for really quick setup/teardown.

Factor is some extra DSP power for dual amps etc (which I don't even really use) and I think its comes well in favor of the Axe II.

If I was doing serious rehearsals I'd consider a AX8 as a practice space tool, that just lives in the jam room, or again, if I had a rig that had lots of external pedals that already would require lots of power/cabling issues, then the Ax8 would integrate well into it.

 

[APOGEE123]

How is the AX8 more plug and play than the Axe FX II? Other than lacking dual amps / cabs, Tone Matching, and having fewer effects, isn't the AX8 every bit as deep and tweakable as the Axe FX II?

Yeah its just as deep amp wise for sure... I certainly could have lived with it...lol maybe the biggest problem could have been my Ax8 software was only up to Q2.2 at the time and I already experienced Q3.01 so I'm sure maybe that even had something to do with it.. I just wish they made the unit full power like the Axe...

 

[rich2k4]

I'm still honestly undecided lol. One day I am 100% sure I want the full Axe Fx, the next day I think about the portability of the Ax8 and if I really am going to use the extra power of the Axe FX. In order to get the recording capability, and headphone use capability I'd need to buy an audio interface like the focus rite 6i6 so I can take advantage of the SPDIF. That is an extra $200, really I consider the Ax8 to be around $1650 including shipping, to get to a baseline of features with the Axe Fx because you need to add the audio interface to get usb recording and headphone use. Still cheaper by $600.

I'd still need to buy studio monitors whichever way I go. However, at least for now, I have a roland cube and fender Gdec that both have Aux Inputs that bypass all of the modeling in those amps. I think I can use one of those as a temporary amplification solution.

I looked at some of the patches made by Rocco and Mark Day, for their George Lynch/Van Halen tones, and it seems simple enough for the Ax8 to handle. Amp, Cab, Drive, Delay, Reverb for most of them. That seems like it shouldn't overload the cpu.

On the other hand, I think about Tyler Grund's SRV patches that sound so amazing. Those use dual amps and cabs, and dual reverbs. Which the AX8 can't handle.

I have a large desk which can fit either unit. If I went the Ax8 route, it would be sitting on my desk, it would never be on the floor unless I took it to a friends house to play.

Ax8 would require more things be plugged in, and more cables, since the addition of the audio interface. Axe Fx 2 would have it all built in so it would be a cleaner home setup. I'd just be using a 2U rack to hold it in. Which is still portable but i'd be losing the footswitching which would be an extra cost, and could get annoying if playing with someone, unless I stick with 1 tone and use the guitar volume for variation. But again, I'm not in a band, and don't currently play out.

However Ax8 is $600 cheaper even with the audio interface. That $600 could go toward a pair of Yamaha HS7's, which would then come out to total the price of a new Axe Fx for the whole package. Ax8, Interface, Monitors. I'd still have $1000 left over.

If I went the Axe FX route, I'd have about $200-300 left over after buying the monitors.

But again I'd be losing functionality with the Ax8. Would I use that extra functionality all the time? probably not, but when it comes to those SRV patches, you need it.

 

[Lionheart]

My philosophy is: Buy the best gear, one piece at a time. Save up the money. You'll be much happier in the end.

 

[vangrieg]

I would go with the AFX. AX8 is more of a gigging tool, IMO. Unless lightweight/compact is your top priority, get the real deal. Especially since you mention recording.

If you need to save money, get something else instead of the MFC. At home I use BJ Devices TB-12, which cost me something like $150-200.

 

[Jason Scott]

$200-$300 left over after purchasing the Axe FX II and monitors would be enough to purchase an interface. Unless I'm missing something, you'd have enough to make it work. Since you don't play out, you can always purchase a foot controller later, and you can always downgrade if you decide it's overkill. However, upgrading to an Axe II from the AX8 might take a bit longer once you've spent the extra cash should you decide you need the extra features and more power.

 

[Rexgtr]

I haven't even tried any other fractal gear other than my AxeFxII mk1 and MFC mk1 that I bought 2 or 3 years ago.
I already owned studio monitors and FRFR when I bought this.
I just use mine at home, so far its never left and if I did jam out/play a gig I'd simply leave this at home and bring a light amp setup.
Not a fan of setting up tearing down all the time.