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v 10 Triode hardness

notalemming

Fractal Fanatic
Cliff, in the release notes you mention that the triode hardness has been changed but not how it has changed or how the different settings affect the sound. In v9 I used to leave it at 0.00 most of the time & set it to .10 on clean amps to add a nice bit of sparkle to the sound. Now most of the amps seem to be in the 8.00 to 9.00 range. Turning it down seems to make the highs distort more. Is this correct? Would setting it to 10.00 be the same as the 0.00 setting in v9 ? Thanks!
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
There is no correspondence that I can offer as the modeling algorithm is different. What the parameter does now is control the asymmetry of the triode model. The higher the value, the more asymmetrical the clipping. A value of zero would be completely symmetrical which will decrease the even harmonics and increase the odd harmonics. Triodes are very asymmetrical. The default values are rounded to the nearest 0.5 based on the MIMIC measurement for that amp.
 

notalemming

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks for the quick reply Cliff! So in layman's terms, would it be lower values have a harsher, more brittle sound & higher values smother, sweeter sound?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
You could probably say that since lower values will have less even and more odd harmonics. The smoothness/harshness of distortion is a function of the ratio of even to odd harmonics. The more symmetrical the clipping, the more odd and less even harmonics.
 

Sixstring

Axe-Master
When you are talking about the symmetry of the clipping are you referring to what it looks like on a O scope?
 

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
I am having the oddest results. I was messing with my plexi 100 patch and felts like it was kinda harsh on the top end. I remember that triode hardness used to affect smoothness of distortion on non MV amps. It defaulted to 9.xxx I just figured let me start at at 0 and I ended up liking it there.
 

symphx

Fractal Fanatic
I was messing with Leggy and getting all kinds high and squeal and harshness, with an already bright Jem guitar. I found these were decent parameters to turn down, all the triode switches, 3 on the bottom I cant remember each name. That being said I still cant get that thick smooth tone vai gets out of the legacy.
 

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
I was messing with Leggy and getting all kinds high and squeal and harshness, with an already bright Jem guitar. I found these were decent parameters to turn down, all the triode switches, 3 on the bottom I cant remember each name. That being said I still cant get that thick smooth tone vai gets out of the legacy.
Off topic, Vai uses drive pedals to fatten things up.
 

guitarmike

Experienced
If you put a scope on the output of a triode in a plexi (for example) that was driven into distortion, you would see that only one part of the signal is clipped. This is asymmetry and has to do with the way the tube is biased. The ability to fine tune this bias and thus, the way the tube clips, has been useful (and somewhat difficult) for amp designers and modders/tuners for a long time. The fact that you can adjust this in the axe fx is just one of the truly ground breaking features it possesses.

For those that have a real ts808 or ts9, replace one of the clipping diodes with a germanium one. This will cause asymmetrical clipping in the TS. It almost sounds like a bottom octave has been added when used with my old marshal - super fat. This is partly due to driving those triodes harder but you can also hear the difference in the asymmetry caused by the different bias points of the silicon and germanium diodes. Also change the output resisters of the ts9 to that of the ts808 for a little more output; schematic's are all over the web.

I wonder if that could be a feature for the drives in future firmware updates- adjustable symmetry.
 
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