Using your guitar volume knob?

as a 80's guitar slinger wanna be I never used it. Then I watched and listened to some older guys who really had great sound and I got smart.
It's the best, most useful, most transparent, noise free, dynamic, intuitive interface, clean-to-scream, etc. etc. guitar effect you can get and it's FREE!

Now I'm so used to it that if I plug into an amp or a modeler and it doesn't respond well to guitar volume knob variation I don't buy it.
I set up all modelers or real amps so that the tone and volume are rolled off about 20% on the guitar to get the loudest, brightest sound I would use and that extra 20% always comes in handy in a mix....then again so does the lower 80% too. All with just a roll of the knob.
 
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The question of using guitar volume and tone knobs has always been one of interest to me. Personally, to control my volume, for decades I have used a volume pedal in the amp effects loop or rack rig mixer. This way I can go from complete silence to full out blow your head off volume all while not having any effect or change to my tone...only the volume. The same exact tone gets either louder or softer depending on where my volume pedal is set. I totally keep the tone from low volume to full on and rarely if ever use the guitar volume knob. To me it seems that the best guitar tone (and the quietest) is when the guitar is turned up all the way. If I am missing something with that concept please advise.

To change distortion levels or tones I either change to a different amp patch or kick on a foot pedal for drive. I've been doing this successfully without any issues or limitations since the 70s and frequently have gotten compliments on my tone. In fact I've had guys ask me how I keep my tone intact and consistent at various volume levels.

I have experimented with using the guitar volume knob to affect tone and when I have backed it off to obtain a desirable, less distorted tone, my volume is no longer loud enough. I know many if not all pros use their volume knobs extensively to adjust tone. Might someone please be able to elaborate in detail on how you keep your actual on-stage volume level up loud enough when you back off on your guitar volume knob to adjust the tone for less distortion? I would love to learn how to successfully do this. Thanks all.
 
When I was a youngster in Detroit, I played a Les Paul in to an absolutely dimed Silverface Twin Reverb - still one of my favorite overdriven tones and not unlike what you would hear from Detroit legends Jim Mcarty (Mitch Ryder) or Ted Nugent. When I needed distortion, I cranked my Les Paul. When I needed clean, I turned it down. It worked wonderfully. If your band's mix is good, the guitar is still going to find it's way on top of the rhythm section. Personally, I think most Les Paul's sound better when turned down a tad and with the tone pot rolled off slightly. I always thought that was why LP's had numbers on the knobs.

IMHO, the Axe FX responds like the real thing when rolling off the volume.
 
Mark Sare said:
I have experimented with using the guitar volume knob to affect tone and when I have backed it off to obtain a desirable, less distorted tone, my volume is no longer loud enough...Might someone please be able to elaborate in detail on how you keep your actual on-stage volume level up loud enough when you back off on your guitar volume knob to adjust the tone for less distortion?
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There will always be some volume drop when you back off the guitar's volume knob, but there can still be enough volume to keep things useful. Here are a couple of tricks:


  • When you roll off the knob for a cleaner sound, don't go for crystal-clear clean. Make sure that the lowest setting you use is still pushing the amp hard. In other words, set up your rig so there's at least a touch of hair on your tone at the lowest knob setting you're going to use. Then crank up the knob however much you need to get your desired higher-gain tone. You don't have to go all the way up if that doesn't work for you.


  • Power-amp distortion gives you a wider useful range than preamp distortion. Amps like Plexis and Fenders run the power amp wide open, and they respond well to the guitar's volume knob. Super-high-gain metaloid-type tones rely more on preamp distortion, and they don't respond to the knob as well.


  • Consider adding a treble bleed circuit to your guitar's volume knob. Without a treble bleed, many guitars get dark very quickly when you roll off the knob. That loss of high end can translate into a bigger drop in perceived volume.


  • Remember that when you clean up your tone with the volume knob, the band will often be playing more quietly. That will help you blend better.


For a great example of volume-knob cleanup, check out Van Halen's Panama. He rolls off his knob to clean up his tone for the break, but he doesn't go crystal-clean. There's still plenty of dirt on his tone; it just sounds clean compared to his wide-open tone.
 
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"To me it seems that the best guitar tone (and the quietest) is when the guitar is turned up all the way."

Obviously, it all depends on what you call "best". But for me– couldn't disagree more. The tones I personally like best are almost invariably found with vol knob rolled off somewhat... maybe 8 or 9. Tone on the treble PU usually rolled off, as well. But of course, the tones I think are "best" could be quite different.

So, in response to your question about "how you keep your actual on-stage volume level up loud enough when you back off on your guitar volume knob to adjust the tone for less distortion?". For my tones, I generally get them with my volume knob rolled off, as mentioned above. If I get what I consider my "hot" tone, w/ volume at 8.5, let's say, I can roll it down from there to clean up. Yeah, it gets quieter. Music does that, sometimes...:)

Then, if things get real crazy, turning vol up to 9.5, or 10, is just more saturated.... but not really louder.

BTW... I've always used a volume pedal in the exact same way as you. This may be obvious... but I often use it to boost my output when the guitar volume drops, in order to achieve "less drive, but same volume in mix" that you were asking about. Of course, that means setting your "nominal" maximum stage volume at 2/3 up on your volume pedal. Therefore, that last 1/3 is additional volume, when you've lowered the guitar vol. knob.
Make sense?
 
Mark Sare said:
To me it seems that the best guitar tone (and the quietest) is when the guitar is turned up all the way. If I am missing something with that concept please advise.
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Nope, nothing wrong with this, if it's what you dig then it's the right thing for you to do. ;)
Check out what Rex mentioned about a treble bleed mod to your wiring. Depending on your guitar and pickups it can make a big big difference when you roll your volume down.

My hum bucker and single coil guitars don't see a big difference in tonality based on the volume knob position, my P90 guitars however do. I generally keep them at around 80% for my 'wide-open' sound (ocassionally bumping up to 100% or so, depending on the sound I want) and the tone on them at about the same, most of the time, but I monkey the P90's as much as I do the others, so there's that.

Mark Sare said:
I have experimented with using the guitar volume knob to affect tone and when I have backed it off to obtain a desirable, less distorted tone, my volume is no longer loud enough. I know many if not all pros use their volume knobs extensively to adjust tone. Might someone please be able to elaborate in detail on how you keep your actual on-stage volume level up loud enough when you back off on your guitar volume knob to adjust the tone for less distortion? I would love to learn how to successfully do this.
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Honestly, while there IS a bit of a drop off in amp volume when you roll the knob back a bit, I've never had a situation where it dropped me out of the mix. I tend to have a fairly mid-bumped sound, so I cut through the mix pretty well as it is, and remember that less gain = more clarity (generally, I'm not trying to start a holy war here), so when you DO drop the gain and volume, you're increasing your 'perceived' volume slightly (total couch science here). Plus, like Rex said, again, when you're cleaning up, the band's usually going to be playing a bit softer too.

As far as specifics, I usually do sound check at around 80% volume on my guitar and don't touch the amp for the rest of the night. When I need to clean it up, I roll back the guitar volume. That's about as far as I really think about it and it just works.
 
none of the Line 6 stuff I had back in the day sounded good when rolling off my volume, it muffled the tone as well.

I've had tube amps too, but I feel nothing has given me more dynamics than the AXE FX II.
 
Hi
Use volume knob all the time to control gain.
Most amps that operate with the master volume maxed work best. Plexi, Wrecker etc. Modern high gain amps that rely on pre-amp gain tend to stay dirty when volume is rolled off.
I max the master and turn input gain up to achieve my solo sound.
Not all guitars react the same but as you roll the volume back, the sound cleans up really well.
I go from funk cleans to searing classic rock solo sounds without changing patch or stepping on anything. If you can change to single coils or split coils as you roll back, the effect is increased.
I see guys slightly bemused as I change tones dramatically without standing on anything.
The one thing I would say is that you need to be a responsible, disciplined player as much as to being aware of the tone required and the level.
I set my solo level FOH then the rest is down to me.
 
I use the volume knob on my guitar so much I just had to replace one on my Eric Johnson strat last night with a Seymour Duncan yjm high-speed volume pot, I wear those suckers out. I get more compliments on my ethereal playing at church, then anything else I do. I'm the swell king. The Axe-fx is awesome with dynamics, it excels at that task. It awesome when you have all the right tools to get the job done, because then your not looking for something better, your just working on getting better instead.
 
The right pickups and it works great ,some need a treble bleed ,only thing is between dirt and clean settings. Big difference between volume. Volume pot = tone:encouragement:
 
Constantly use the Volume pots when playing live.

One of the best things about the Axe-FX is how nicely an overdriven tone cleans up with a little volume control. Just like a real amp :)
 
scottburrow said:
........... Seymour Duncan yjm high-speed volume pot, .......
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I've been thinking about swapping out the volume pot on my Suhr for one of these. I'd like less friction (easier to turn). How do you like this Seymour pot so far?
 
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Warrior said:
I've been thinking about swapping out the volume pot on my Suhr for one of these. I'd like less resistance. How do you like this Seymour pot so far?
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Just put it in last night. So far I like it a lot, very fluid and fast. 11 or so bucks on Amazon. You gotta love Amazon prime. two days free shipping. I was initially worried about the sound because I had heard that the Eric Johnson strat had originally a 375k Pot, which I couldn't find for the life of me. But then understanding that it just made the highs on the pickup higher, I wasn't so worried, because I'm always bringing down the treble on my bridge pickup. I do a lot of swells, in my playing and this is like having the right tool for the job, because I had literally worn out the old pot, I needed something and this fits the bill.
 
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I absolutely love the Brit 800 model for exactly this. It goes from pristine snappy chime to bluesy grit to dynamic crunch to balls out lead with only guitar volume adjustments. When I started playing, I used to never use the guitar controls except to mute the guitar when needed. Then I bought a tube amp and everything changed.
 
This is a guitar playing STYLE question rather than an Axe-FX question.

I was like you in most of my playing...dime it all, tweak and don't worry about it.

But I ran into a situation where I had to play a MV amp...nothing else. I realized that there was a 'hole' in my playing. I worked on using pup's and volume knob with MV amps. It opened up a huge amount of variation you can do without resorting to channel changers, patches, scenes, whatever. It takes practice, but it makes you better at adjustments (and you don't have to be glued to your pedalboard.)

You'll find some amps do this better than others. The Plexi is the obvious example.

I suggest a few songs for this (using a plexi):

'Since I've been loving you' from Zep. On my LP, start the song on neck PUP, vol 3, when he launches into the opening solo stanza (you'll know when you listen to it), drop to your bridge PUP at 10. For the quieter verses sections, I like middle position neck 3, bridge 6-7, play lightly, dig in a little later in the song...dime vol knob for the solo.
'Alright now' is an easy one, 1st part vol around 7, dial it up for the solo.

Again, this is highly dependent upon how much preamp drive you have dialed in. For these 2 songs, it works for me for gain to be noon and under. But YMMV.

R
 
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