Using the looper while playing with a band effectively

A

adildo

Inspired
Hi guys,

have been involved with a new band and its only a 3 piece. the drummer has requested that I use looping live. its not an easy task and although we just started i just wanted to know what is the most effective way to do this.

i know there are different quantize options etc. in the settings. does this affect it much?

will we all need to use a click track to sync the tempo/the loops. or can it be done without?

ive heard that tosin does this live but with a boomerang. has anyone used looping live effectively with the mfc?

thanks
 
Do you play with tracks or multiple loopers? Do you currently use a click?

To me, successful looping comes from practice and creating loops in time, as well as being able to hear the loop while performing.

There is a metronome function and the quantize will assure that your loop is the correct length, but you must set your tempo before you start looping. For me, this approach does not work since I don't want the audience to hear the metronome, I don't want to set the tempo, and because that takes too long.

I made a video covering the looper block, but I do not discuss quantize or metronome at all. Maybe someone else can help you with that, but if you are new to the looper block or loopers in general, you may want to watch it.

http://blog.katsukurimedia.com/2014/09/using-the-looper-block-in-the-axe-fx-ii/
 
Hi,
it all depends on how good your timing with the looper is.
You don't need to quantize your playing and you don't need a click track. In fact a click would make it harder, because you'd need to loop perfectly or drive everyone else insane.
If you don't use a click and you're a bit off the others can adapt to your loop.
 
If your drummer uses a click you can use quantize. No need for the metronome this way. It's much easier to get tight loops this way because you only have to correctly press the rec button once instead of twice. I wish the beginning of the loop could also be quantized but that's not possible with Axe fx. Also the reverse and half speed cannot be quantized. This would make the looper more useful to me. Using unquantized rhythmic loops with a live drummer is always very tricky. Good monitoring for the drummer is essential. But you can't expect the drummer to adjust to your badly timed loops all the time.
 
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Bodde said:
If your drummer uses a click you can use quantize. No need for the metronome this way. It's much easier to get tight loops this way because you only have to correctly press the rec button once instead of twice. I wish the beginning of the loop could also be quantized but that's not possible with Axe fx. Also the reverse and half speed cannot be quantized. This would make the looper more useful to me. Using unquantized rhythmic loops with a live drummer is always very tricky. Good monitoring for the drummer is essential. But you can't expect the drummer to adjust to your badly timed loops all the time.
Click to expand...

Yes, Yes, yes, +1, +1
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
Do you play with tracks or multiple loopers? Do you currently use a click?

To me, successful looping comes from practice and creating loops in time, as well as being able to hear the loop while performing.

There is a metronome function and the quantize will assure that your loop is the correct length, but you must set your tempo before you start looping. For me, this approach does not work since I don't want the audience to hear the metronome, I don't want to set the tempo, and because that takes too long.

I made a video covering the looper block, but I do not discuss quantize or metronome at all. Maybe someone else can help you with that, but if you are new to the looper block or loopers in general, you may want to watch it.

Using the Looper block in the Axe-Fx II | Katsu Kuri Media Blog
Click to expand...

thanks for the link chris. yesterday at practice we trying to do it while the drummer had a click going . it was tricky. but yea i would not want to set the tempo because i dont want the audience to hear it either. we tried having the drummer use the click and without it as well. obviously short phrases work better than long ones. but we will need to get this sorted before trying it live. was always curious how AAL did it.
 
This is a great question. I have never used the looping function in the Axe and our band is just now considering a couple tunes where it would be REALLY awesome if it could work, LIVE. Yet, all these issues come for a live situation. I honestly believe I could play a loop, fairly in time for a few measures, and our drummer could work with it. The biggest part would be the monitoring, as was mentioned before. The drummer would need to have a GREAT monitor mix to be able to make any adjustment on the fly, if needed.

I will give this a try and report back. If it could work with minimal problems, I will be adding this to my bag of tricks for live shows. I am excited about the possibility. Any other helpful hints or direct experience would be great.

Good luck.
 
I personnaly use a looper with my band, it is a digitech jamman stereo and you have an external "rythm out", that you can connect to your drummer ears with a head phones for example^^. The really good thing about this feature is that the tempo will be set automatically by your looper once the loop is recorded, and then when the loop is playing your drummer has the click. That means that your drummer has the click only when it is necessary and that you can play your song at the tempo you want, then the looper will guess the tempo and send the click. You can also program it to set the tempo in 5/4 or 7/8 or whatever you want, so you can loop what you need easily.

Once I get my Axe, I tried to figure out how to get rid of my jamman and do the looping with the axe, but as you can't have a dedicated output for the click track, you can't use it easily with a drummer.
The only way I see had been described by Bodde, the drummer can use an external click and sync it with the axe, and use the quantize option. But still this way the drummer need to have the click track all along the song, that why I would still prefer the jamman as external looper for my band, much more flexible, you can make loops when improvising for example. :)
 
This thread reminded me of Battles, which I haven´t listened to for a while.

Yeah, I agree with others here. Drummers monitoring is probably most important, although everyone else in the band would need to have that too more or less to a certain degree to be able to 'lock in' to the static beat/groove you doubtless will get. There are less margins for anything/anyone drifting when loopers are involved.

I think I´ve read somewhere that the big speaker behind John Stainer´s drumkit is his monitor for anything looping blasting right onto him from the back (both to hear as well as feel). Don´t know how true that is though or if I recalls it wrong or something, so take it with a grain of salt...
Battles - La Blogothèque

...another interesting thing is that Dave Konopka uses two echoplex dpp, which surely either utilizes brothersync or midiclock inbetween them. Question is if they are master or slaves to Ian Williams laptop.

(oh... and I love the drumsound in Futura in the link above!)
 
The pigtronix infinity looper has a cool feature, an aux output that only has the loop, in mono. So you can blast the loop only to the drummer and whatever you play over it isn't in the signal so they just hear the loop and any overdubs.
 
Just watched this one in entire:
Battles - 40 minutes in Mexico City (Light & Noise episode) - YouTube

I can´t believe that they actually manage all that chaos. Playing guitar (one handed) and keys (one handed) at the same time, loops going on in background etc... and the overlaps into next song. If I ever gets to be able to do 10% of what they are doing there, I´d consider myself quite happy.

Yeah, Pigtronix Infinity Looper seems quite cool. Would like to try one out some day. Backline Engineerings RiffBox has a pretty similar feature too. But too short loop time overall.
 
I do on one song currently... Nutshell by AIC. The ending I loop my acoustic sound, then roll on the expression for a lead tone and solo over the progression. It's very tricky to do correctly and it's very easy to screw the pooch as well. So far out of 3 gigs, i got it right 2 times.
 
adildo said:
wow i wasnt ready for the battles stuff!

this is not as complex but has some good ideas MIYAVI "Futuristic Love" - NAMM 2013 with Taylor Guitars - YouTube

btw my drummer mentioned something about syncing an external midi clock with the axe fx. not sure what he meant tho
Click to expand...

MYYAVI was cool, thanks for that link! I checked out some other videos on youtube, cool guitar playing technique! Reminded me of Keziah Jones (african spaceship) that I listened to many years ago...

Your drummer probably means that your Axe FX can be synced to an external midi clock (= correct). That either he controls or you both follows (ie as from an pedal/sequencer/computer/drummachine or whatever). Example: Ploytec 34oneII - MIDI Clock "Tap on" Tempo Pedal
 
I use a looper for a few covers we'll do with various bands on U2, RHCP and Anouk, in it's most simple way -> record and replay at end of recording by hitting the record button again + stop button as a backup in case I fuck up or I'll do a patch change to cut off the loop in the latter case.
Use it without any artifices (synchro, tempo WTF). It works flawless but you sure have to be concentrated on playing and are not allowed to miss the moment to hit the button. I do use it because I'm the only guitar player and it's the only way to be able to play these songs correctly. Otherwise I surely wouldn't use the looper "manually" because at every performance (I'm not a regular performer) it gives me chicken skin just to think about how to solve the situation if things fuck up. Until now I was a lucky guy..I never screwed up the songs.
If I'd play in a professional band I'd surely consider using a sequencer on the console for controlling all midi Equipment during each song, just to limit the risk of a total atomization of the band in case of a missed loop start.
 
I actually had this same problem, Quantizing loops makes your loops soo much better and some devices can send a metronome click to your drummer or band members to sync all your loops, live.

I've used laptops, and drum machines, but the best thing I found is a small Midi clock called "Midinome", you should look it up in google.

Happy looping!
 
Yes ive tried with my Ax8 live, many drummers are used to setting the timing, which in a group is great. Even if I explain looping and have loop volume singled out, drifting happens. Drummers used to playing with a metronome have less or no trouble, unless I futz the out time. At jam night it’s amazing how that plays out. Usually now I start with a loop and ask to let me start for 2 minutes, then others can join and I just stop the loop and play the groove. But ya, Ive debated having a few pre made percussion loops, but then I’d need a separate looper system and that’s another whole ball of wax
 
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