Using Output L/R as separate outputs?

[ly25]

Hello!

I'm not yet the owner of an Axe FX III, but just trying to do a bit of research first. Can't quite seem to find this information, so thinking it's not possible.

Basically, I'm wanting to run a guitar, a bass, and a synth (just for FX) into my Axe FX for live purposes.

I'm wondering if I run my guitar and bass in mono out of Output 1/2 LEFT respectively, is it possible to use a third input to run out of the "right" channel on output 1/2? This would save me needing to use a DI to run out of input 3 for synth.

I know this isn't the right forum, but similarly on the FM3, can Output 1 L/R be used as two separate mono outputs as well? I'll do a separate post on the FM3 forum for that if this forum isn't sure.

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it!

 

[ly25]

And an additional curiosity....

One of my setups involve playing in a band with a split guitar/bass, using a POG to drop the octave to a bass amp. (i.e. like Royal Blood type setup with a guitar)

I'm assuming it's possible to run the "down the octave" line (with bass FX/bass amp) out of Output 1 Right, and regular guitar rig out of Output 1 Left?

Thanks very much for the info!

 

[TSJMajesty]

I doubt you'd want to do it that way. Download the manual (it'll answer questions you may not have thought of), and go to page 23.

 

[unix-guy]

With careful routing, yes...

However the Axe Fx III has 4 stereo outputs.

 

[ly25]

I doubt you'd want to do it that way. Download the manual (it'll answer questions you may not have thought of), and go to page 23.

Hello! I have actually read through the whole manual, looked through the forum, the wiki, and looked on various YouTube videos, and it doesn't seem to answer this particular question, unless I'm misinterpreting something.

I'm looking to use 3 inputs with 3 separate signal chains to go to 3 separate balanced outputs, and from what I'm reading in the manual, I can't find anything to mention the capabilities of internally routing each stereo L/R output to use as individual mono outputs.

My understanding from what I'm reading is that I'd need to run guitar in mono mode to Output 1, bass to Output 2, and then synth to Output 3, and have to use an external DI to create a balanced signal from Output 3, even though there are two balanced outputs available on the right channels of 1/2.

Sorry if I'm being a little unclear, thanks for your help.

With careful routing, yes...

However the Axe Fx III has 4 stereo outputs.

Thank you! In terms of "careful" routing, what type of issues do you think I might run into with the routing? Is it possible to use the output block to just use "Output 1 Left" as an output for any signal chain, separately from "Output 1 Right". From what I'm seeing in the blocks guide, I'm not quite understanding how I'd route Output 1 Left separately to Output 1 Right. Thanks for your help!

In terms of the 4 stereo outputs, I'm looking to have 3 mono balanced output connections, and I believe that the 3rd and 4th stereo outputs are unbalanced, which is why I'm wanting to do it this way.

 

[jasonmauer]

If you have 3 separate signal chains, all you'd need to do before sending the sound to their respective outputs is pan them accordingly. For example, if your bass signal is intended to go to Output 1 Right, you'd just pan that fully to the right, and connect it to the Output 1 block.

One feature within the Output block makes this easy to implement -- the Mixer tab has individual level and pan controls for all 6 rows in the AxeFx grid. You can connect all your different signal chains to each Output block, and within those Outputs you can specify the panning/levels for each signal chain. The Output blocks also have four channels available, so you can maintain 4 different sets of output settings and easily switch between them (via scenes, MIDI control, etc).

In short, it's totally doable -- multiple ways to tackle it within the AxeFx III.

 

[Chad Beattie]

If you have 3 separate signal chains, all you'd need to do before sending the sound to their respective outputs is pan them accordingly. For example, if your bass signal is intended to go to Output 1 Right, you'd just pan that fully to the right, and connect it to the Output 1 block.

One feature within the Output block makes this easy to implement -- the Mixer tab has individual level and pan controls for all 6 rows in the AxeFx grid. You can connect all your different signal chains to each Output block, and within those Outputs you can specify the panning/levels for each signal chain. The Output blocks also have four channels available, so you can maintain 4 different sets of output settings and easily switch between them (via scenes, MIDI control, etc).

In short, it's totally doable -- multiple ways to tackle it within the AxeFx III.

Yes, this with the panning. I helped a friend setup something similar. He has a guitar with also a bass pickup (two piece band). Also wanted to use a special vocal mic for certain effects when singing. So we ended up with three distinct in/out paths. Works great. I think we mocked up a 4th path for a synth but didn't end up using it. You can chew up a lot of CPU if trying to do it all in one preset. So at all times using 3 in/out paths at least. Then for some songs it would work better to do a new preset with different routing and so on. But in summary, yes you can do what you are wanting to.

 

[ly25]

If you have 3 separate signal chains, all you'd need to do before sending the sound to their respective outputs is pan them accordingly. For example, if your bass signal is intended to go to Output 1 Right, you'd just pan that fully to the right, and connect it to the Output 1 block.

One feature within the Output block makes this easy to implement -- the Mixer tab has individual level and pan controls for all 6 rows in the AxeFx grid. You can connect all your different signal chains to each Output block, and within those Outputs you can specify the panning/levels for each signal chain. The Output blocks also have four channels available, so you can maintain 4 different sets of output settings and easily switch between them (via scenes, MIDI control, etc).

In short, it's totally doable -- multiple ways to tackle it within the AxeFx III.

Yes, this with the panning. I helped a friend setup something similar. He has a guitar with also a bass pickup (two piece band). Also wanted to use a special vocal mic for certain effects when singing. So we ended up with three distinct in/out paths. Works great. I think we mocked up a 4th path for a synth but didn't end up using it. You can chew up a lot of CPU if trying to do it all in one preset. So at all times using 3 in/out paths at least. Then for some songs it would work better to do a new preset with different routing and so on. But in summary, yes you can do what you are wanting to.

Thanks guys, this makes total sense! Thanks for clearing this up for me. Sounds like I should look into the Mixer tab a little more in-depth, it sounds really flexible.

Sounds like what I'm trying to do is all very easily possible.

Hope you all have a great day/evening!!

 

[jasonmauer]

Glad to help. Here's a screenshot of an example patch with several signal chains going to independent outputs. Input 3 is setup in this patch to take that input signal and split it left/right into two different chains, using the two Volume/Pan blocks at the beginning of the third & fourth rows.



Output 3 is selected, showing the Mixer tab in the detail view at the bottom of Axe-Edit. (Note Row 3 is panned hard left, and Row 4 panned hard right. You could connect all 6 rows to an Output and adjust them accordingly.)

There are also numerous other blocks like the Multiplexer, Volume/Pan, Filter, Gate, etc that can be very useful for configuring advanced signal routing. And virtually all blocks have a built-in balance control, so you can adjust panning in the last block of your chain without having to add something extra.

 

[unix-guy]

Thank you! In terms of "careful" routing, what type of issues do you think I might run into with the routing?

I was mostly referring to panning others have mentioned already. I should have been less obtuse

In terms of the 4 stereo outputs, I'm looking to have 3 mono balanced output connections,

Just curious, what's the driver behind needing balanced outputs?

 

[ly25]

Glad to help. Here's a screenshot of an example patch with several signal chains going to independent outputs. Input 3 is setup in this patch to take that input signal and split it left/right into two different chains, using the two Volume/Pan blocks at the beginning of the third & fourth rows.

Output 3 is selected, showing the Mixer tab in the detail view at the bottom of Axe-Edit. (Note Row 3 is panned hard left, and Row 4 panned hard right. You could connect all 6 rows to an Output and adjust them accordingly.)

There are also numerous other blocks like the Multiplexer, Volume/Pan, Filter, Gate, etc that can be very useful for configuring advanced signal routing. And virtually all blocks have a built-in balance control, so you can adjust panning in the last block of your chain without having to add something extra.

That's so cool! I'm really glad to see that there's complex routing controls within most blocks.

Just curious, what's the driver behind needing balanced outputs?

For a live setup - with the artist I play with all of our inputs go into our side-stage rack system, with balanced XLR inputs (currently requiring DIs for each instrument). The rack then splits off one line into FOH, and one line into an interface which handles a mix for our IEMs.

The idea of being able to patch out directly from the Fractal to the rack, with no extra DIs needed, with all my effects already set for each song seems like a dream to me. Really looking forward to ditching the pedalboard!

 

[unix-guy]

For a live setup - with the artist I play with all of our inputs go into our side-stage rack system, with balanced XLR inputs (currently requiring DIs for each instrument). The rack then splits off one line into FOH, and one line into an interface which handles a mix for our IEMs.

The idea of being able to patch out directly from the Fractal to the rack, with no extra DIs needed, with all my effects already set for each song seems like a dream to me. Really looking forward to ditching the pedalboard!

Ok... Similar to my band rig except we have 3 Axe Fx units and a fully direct (8 channels) electronic drum kit.

We have the same limitation that our splitter has only XLR inputs... However, you can use a TS to XLR cable from the unbalanced outputs. That's what we do for the drums.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Sorry if I came across as the guy who just says, "Read the manual." That wasn't my intention. It just sounded like you weren't yet aware that the Axe could process 4 discrete channels.

Regarding your "ditch my pedalboard" comment... If you look at the screenshot posted in reply 9, you'll see the CPU usage is almost at the 80% mark, which is where you may start to run into stability issues. So using only 1 Axe for 3 players may, may, limit your freedom to string effect blocks together. But if you figure out how to share a channel, like you want to do, that may not be a problem. Seems to me, that with the Axe Fx III, if you can dream it, you can do it.

Now if you want to ditch your pedalboard, afaic, the Axe Fx III couldn't be a better place to start. And by "start," what I mean is, once you get one, I wouldn't be surprised if your other bandmates want their own, lol!!

 

[ly25]

We have the same limitation that our splitter has only XLR inputs... However, you can use a TS to XLR cable from the unbalanced outputs. That's what we do for the drums.

Would that cause ground loop issues without using a DI inbetween?

Sorry if I came across as the guy who just says, "Read the manual." That wasn't my intention. It just sounded like you weren't yet aware that the Axe could process 4 discrete channels.

Regarding your "ditch my pedalboard" comment... If you look at the screenshot posted in reply 9, you'll see the CPU usage is almost at the 80% mark, which is where you may start to run into stability issues. So using only 1 Axe for 3 players may, may, limit your freedom to string effect blocks together. But if you figure out how to share a channel, like you want to do, that may not be a problem. Seems to me, that with the Axe Fx III, if you can dream it, you can do it.

Now if you want to ditch your pedalboard, afaic, the Axe Fx III couldn't be a better place to start. And by "start," what I mean is, once you get one, I wouldn't be surprised if your other bandmates want their own, lol!!

No offense taken at all, I actually appreciated you pointing out the page number to re-read.

Interesting! I had a peek at this thread here, and it seems like my basic signal for all three might be sitting at around 65-70%, which isn't too bad - and leaves a tiny bit of leeway for inevitable blocks that are larger than what is mentioned here. Hopefully this is still relatively accurate for 2021.
Can't post links but this one:
https://forum[dot]fractalaudio.com/threads/block-cpu-usage-values.138238/

Out of the 3 inputs, there is usually only 2 instruments being played simultaneously too, so I guess I could use scenes to deactivate blocks to save even more CPU in different sections of songs!

 

[TSJMajesty]

I guess I could use scenes to deactivate blocks to save even more CPU in different sections of songs!

I'm playing my Axe right now, and on a preset which uses 45% CPU. But when I deactivated Reverb, Chorus, & Compressor, the CPU usage didn't change, but when I deleted the Reverb, it dropped ~10%, so not sure if that'll work for you.

 

[Danny W.]

Blocks in a preset use CPU whether bypassed or not.

Danny W.

 

[unix-guy]

Would that cause ground loop issues without using a DI inbetween?

A lot depends on your gear, how it's connected, how long the cables are, etc.

I run my Axe Fx III to my Matrix amp via TS cables... No issues, but they're only maybe 6" long

From the drum brain to the splitter we have no issues and it's a 20' snake.

I guess I could use scenes to deactivate blocks to save even more CPU

Blocks use CPU whether active or bypassed.